 |
| |
|
|
TheArsenal
|
 |
Sunny Southern California
Mar 2002
time: 21:31
|
|
I played this conquest as Roosevelt of the Americans. It was quite a different experience than any I have had in Civ. Imagine sitting down at the computer and blindly taking over someone’s game (and a purposely poorly played one at that) about 200 turns in. It is wildly disorienting at first. Not only do you start with around 100 different units, but they are largely naval units with a handful of air, ground and anti-aircraft. Many of the units are already at sea on their way to … something … I couldn’t quite tell. And except for a few industrial powerhouse West Coast cities (and they are powerhouses) your “civ” consists of lots of small island holdings throughout the map.
The game starts at the “end” of a turn. Since I am able to tell the future, and suspected something bad was going to happen next turn, I started the conquest by simply taking stock of each city, changing build orders (“hold on a minute governor, you’re building libraries?”), and getting a grasp on the layout the map and my unit positions. Then I hit the “end of turn button”. I do not want to give away specifics of the initial Japanese attack, but it was quite a different experience seeing AI marines and paratroopers take part in massive attacks – not to mention coordinated AI naval movement. And because this was not “my game”, but one that mimics the surprise and (as note above) poorly defended cities of the Pacific Theater, you get a bit of an initial waxing. And when you start moving air and naval units to your defense, you will note with some distress the large stacks of the Japanese fleet which seem to be situated in the fog of war, everywhere right off your Pacific holdings poised for a second wave.
Some quick and random thoughts:
The light tanks are very cool, with excellent sound and graphics, but (I don’t remember the stats) less powerful than their regular counterpart. Marines are beefed up, which is quite excellent.
You start without Amphibious Warfare (which was first tech I researched), any transports to speak of, very few land units, and are outmatched on the sea and in the air, so taking back holdings is no cake walk.
It took me a while to get a grasp on that level of naval warfare, and I certainly have not completely. In the average Civ experience your navy has never been that important, and certainly not that large, so this was as exhilarating as it was daunting, and I made plenty of stupid unit losing mistakes.
There are a couple of workers in the game (very randomly placed), but I found no real use for them.
Locked alliance is an excellent concept. I am looking forward to the Modders getting their hands on that.
Last edited by TheArsenal on 08-11-2003 at 00:15
|
|
| |
|
|
|
rtj4000
|
|
Florida
Dec 2001
time: 00:31
|
|
I had the exact same feeling of being completely overwhelmed when starting this game. Playing as Japan, I had a ton of units. This sounds great, except its hard to absorb everything quickly and make good opening attack moves when you have so many units that you didn't position yourself.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
publius
|
|
As someone who's pretty familiar with the circumstances of Japan's attacks aftre Pearl harbor, I was amazed at the historical accuracy of it all. If you play your cards right you can take Singapore in 2 turns, which is just about right, and then there are the two British battleships loitering there for you to bomb. My only gripe is that the carriers are too small - they only carry three planes each, which somehow seems insufficient. 6 carriers bearing down on Pearl and I can only carry 18 planes?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
TheArsenal
|
|
Sunny Southern California
Mar 2002
time: 21:31
|
|
It’s good to know that it is historically accurate. I would have guessed as much - the individual naming of the American naval vessels alone show they put some real time into this. But, at least from playing the American side, as a Civ player you can’t help but look at the situation and laugh at what a mess you’ve been put into, and how you could never screw things up that much on your own.
Also – after the first turn I restarted that conquest again. It seems to me the Japanese attack started a little, but not radically, different. I don’t recall seeing paratroopers, the first time for instance. But that could be down to it being very late last night. Can someone confirm this? If that is the case, it massively helps the scenario’s replay value.
Last edited by TheArsenal on 08-11-2003 at 01:42
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
publius
|
|
i understand they're supposed to represent units of planes, but three is still awfully few - i think the planes still aren't as powerful as they should be against naval units, which should basically be sitting ducks without air cover. in the battle of midway, american planes from three carriers were able to sink four japanese carriers and a cruiser. that can't happen with only 3 planes per CV...
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Strollen
|
|
Charlie
What tricks did you try/ or are possible to simulate the Japanese surprise advantage during the early years of the war.
I was thinking maybe start the ships with one few hit points or something?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Ckibler
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by dexters
I looked into the scenario. Tried bombing Pearl Habour, and felt like the Japanese side didn't have enough bombers to do the job. Or maybe I'm missing something.
When I was much younger and was in Junion high, one of my favorite strategy games on my Super Nintendo was P.T.O (Pacific Theatre of Operations) so this scenario is definately up my alley. And I love the music! |
At least in a single-player game, you *should* have enough bombers & fighters on the Japanese carriers positioned around Honolulu to put a pretty nice hurtin' to the ships stationed in Honolulu (AKA Pearl Harbor). Now, you can get the odd-ball attack when only one or two ships are sunk, or perhaps even none, but you can also get a devastating attack where, say, 6 might be sunk. On average, however, I found that usually 2-4 battlehips or cruisers will go "belly up" (or settle permanently on the harbor floor), and most, if not all the rest, will be red-lined. The new penalty for ships being caught "at anchor" is pretty severe.
Expect to lose, on average, about 2 planes to AA fire during that attack. Sometimes more, sometimes less.
Of course, as we all know, it all hinges on them funky Civdice. 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ckibler
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Strollen
Charlie
What tricks did you try/ or are possible to simulate the Japanese surprise advantage during the early years of the war.
I was thinking maybe start the ships with one few hit points or something? |
Well, while working on the WWII in the Pacific scenario, I was lucky enough to be able to get the programmer to help out by adding a few "tricks". Namely (and as you probably know by now), no "Allied" nation (i.e., U.S., Commonwealth, China or Dutch) can move any units on turn one. Thus, the Japanese fleet lurking around (the carriers of which are packed to the max with elite- & veteran-quality air units) can pounce on the U.S. fleet anchored in Pearl Harbor (Honolulu). That was one "trick" that was specially added; the editor "flag" to "Skip first turn" for selected countries.
I, and several others, also felt it appropriate that ships should be more vulnerable if caught by bombardment attack when "anchored" in a harbor (as evidenced several times already in WWII's "western" theatre, and the Japanese were paying special attention!). So, IIRC, a modifier was added to the combat formula to make ships in harbor more vulnerable. Also, the targeting formula was tweaked so that bombarders would not go for terrain improvements as much, but instead attempt to sink any in-range highly-vulnerable ship and air units. So, those were kind of "tricks" -- albeit none I did personally, just asked for.
Furthermore, the programmer also tinkered with the AI to "nudge" it to do realistic para-drops and amphibious assaults -- at least when given the necessary units within range of juicy targets. Oh yes, the AI was also adjusted so that better escorts would be provided for naval transport units, and so that the AI would tend to launch more-effective invasions.
"Tricks" that I did (and, of course, they are really not "tricks" at all), were to give the Japanese numerous veteran and elite starting units -- on land, sea and air. This is not unrealistic, as the Japanese military in 1941 was a finely-tuned combat machine due to all their experience fighting in China over the past several years. Conversely, the non-Chinese Allied units in many places (i.e., Philappines, Sumatra, Indonesia, Borneo, Guam, etc.) are few and of relatively poor quality. True "paper tigers". Again, these are not tricks per se, really just the historic situation (albeit abstractly represented as best I could).
Oh, and there are some pretty massive stacks of Japanese units (elite & vet armies, marines, paratroopers, infantry, armor, and air) chomping at the bit to be loosed upon these poor-quality allied units. Again, not a "trick", just the historical situation.
I'm happy to say that, at least in the WWII in the Pacific Conquest, all these improvements come together nicely to give a pretty impressive advantage to the Japanese early in the game.
Here's hoping everyone enjoys it! 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JamesJKirk
|
 |
Dixon, CA USA
Jan 1970
time: 21:31
|
|
I actually managed to lose this one  As the US, I was going the slow and steady route, there was somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 turns left, I'd taken back most all the Pacific Islands, (Including Iwo Jima, which I was using to bomb the Japanese mainland and remove the roads from around Tokyo, but not including those which're along the Asian coast), the parts of the Philippines and Indonesia that were lost, Saigon, and I was preparing to launch my A-bomb supported invasion of the rest of Southeast Asia when I get the "You lose" popup. I wasn't paying attention to victory points! And the worst part is that Japan won w/ just over 40000, and I had about 39500. If only I'd invaded Hue earlier, rather than wait so I could get Hue and Bangkok in the same turn
But it was still fun 
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
kring
|
 |
Wichita,KS,USA
Dec 2001
time: 23:31
|
|
The VP Locations (VPL's) are the Egyptian (or Washington Monument) Obelisks scattered around the map. You need to have a military unit stationed on it to get the points.
Several things that help out. Draft Citizens, something I rarely do in Epic Games. Wartime Mobilization is also helpful. If I am China, I set my research to between 0-10% to get the gold needed to cash rush. There isn't much tech I needed as China. For the other civs, going after the VPL's on the islands had me heading for Amphib Warfare and maybe Airborne Warfare. Other than that, I didn't need much in the way of techs for researching. One thing I did do was to switch most cities over to Workers on the first turn, hurry rush as many as I could afford. Use them to build Airfields in the areas that had good production and/or a lot of start units or would need reinforcements.
As the US, I typically would lose Aparri, Guam on the first turn. Wake Island and Davao, possibly Manila and Puerto Princess on the second turn.
China needs to draft as much as possible and reinforce the front areas ASAP. As does the Commonwealth. China may or may not lose a few front line cities on the first turn or two. The Commonwealth typically loses Hong Kong and Bhuket on turn one. I will post an example of a recent WWII game I played.
Another thing I found that I rarely do in regular games was bad odd attacks.
I also didn't build many ships or planes in this game. Mostly, Marines and Paratroopers for US and Commonwealth. MG Battalions and Lt Tanks for China.
Also, for Japan, attack Pearl Harbor with sea bombardment from the ships near Pearl. A turn or two, sometimes three, would wipe out most if not all of the US Pearl Fleet.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
joncnunn
|
 |
Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
time: 23:31
|
|
Um, without changing the rules, I think if you had bypassed the mainland of SE Asia and concentrated on Japan you would have had a better shot at winning.
The scoring example below is why most war games don't make first player to XXX points the winner. Perhaps Firaxis could put a patch that in addition, the player hiting that score must have 10% more points than their nearest rival?
quote:
Originally posted by JamesJKirk
I actually managed to lose this one As the US, I was going the slow and steady route, there was somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 turns left, I'd taken back most all the Pacific Islands, (Including Iwo Jima, which I was using to bomb the Japanese mainland and remove the roads from around Tokyo, but not including those which're along the Asian coast), the parts of the Philippines and Indonesia that were lost, Saigon, and I was preparing to launch my A-bomb supported invasion of the rest of Southeast Asia when I get the "You lose" popup. I wasn't paying attention to victory points! And the worst part is that Japan won w/ just over 40000, and I had about 39500. If only I'd invaded Hue earlier, rather than wait so I could get Hue and Bangkok in the same turn
But it was still fun |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
publius
|
|
I was actually disappointed at how few VPs you needed to win, esp as Japan. I actually won in I think 12 turns on regent, by that time I controlled Borneo and New Guinea and everything north of them, plus Wake, Midway, and Pearl (won before I could take Hilo). I managed to sink 3/4 US carriers without losing a single plane... couldn't find the Yorktown.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:31.
Apolyton Time is 00:31. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
07-11-2003 22:26
|