10-11-2003 11:05									#31
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Nubians exist as barbs. I actually found them quite difficult to deal with on Sid level.

I just won on Demigod level as the Sumerians with 2 wonders. The Phoenicians and Medeans also had two. It was an exciting endgame because the Phoenicians were on pace to get the Lighthouse, and win with three wonders. However I conquered Tyre when it had 7 turns left. The Medeans, then with one wonder, completed it. I won because I had lots of conquest vps. I got a scientific great leader, which gave me Artemis. I doubt I could have won without it.

	10-11-2003 12:00									#32
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I have wanted to use the traits of the Sumerians, but I have been afraid of the UU making a GA before I can have more than a city or three.
Is that a concern or is it not a problem? They cannot make spearmen either, so it is hard to not use them if you get into a war.

	10-11-2003 21:23									#33
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker No Nubians to the south? That sucks

One change I'm planning to make.

I have a question about Egypt. Are the Barbs tough to deal with, or would it be more effective to have a civ to take up the space? (I don't want Egypt to have too easy a job, so I might add a Libyan civ next to them).

I'm also adding the Assyrians, and I might add something to stop Sumerian expansion in the Arabian Desert. Any other ideas?

	10-11-2003 23:05									#34
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I've been playing on Monarch with the Phoenicians. Seafaring is an excellent trait to contact other civs and trade techs. The extra gold per costal city is working quite well to my advantage as well. The Colossus will be built soon and hope to see an even larger boost to my huge economy. I've just entered the Iron Age.

After a quick war to contain Egypt I signed a MPP and ROP agreement with Mycenae only to have them enter my territory and attack an undefended city and destroy it. For that they are going to pay. I've signed an peace treaty so I can focus on building wonders as I've entered a GA due to the Tyrian Guards killing off a Mycenaen archer.

	11-11-2003 00:29									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior I started with this Conquest. Why? Because it was the first one.

I started Mesopotamia for the same reason. I also played Sumeria but only on Monarch. It was way too easy on this level.

Strategy thoughts - I found this to be a builders scenario. I played with a smaller, less corrupt empire. I had 3 good Wonder building cities and several mid size reseach and unit builders. I focused on research and wonder building while keeping a powerful military. I never attacked anyone and was able to avoid all but one war durning my diplomatic efforts. I built all 7 wonders and achieved my 1st wonder victory.

I look forward to trying the compact and efficient empire startegy on a harder level.

	11-11-2003 00:59									#36
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I played this one as Egypt on Emperor, and was thinking too long term. Phonecians completed three wonders when I only had 2. I took too much time colonizing nearly all of Africa

	11-11-2003 05:09									#37
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Just less than Half way finished as Egypt on Monarch; just finished the world's first wonder. (Hanging Gardens; it started as the Pyraimds but I switched when I discovered City Planning and noticed it would also give me a GA and was cheaper.)

My thoughts:

1. I discovered that I was wasting resources 30 turns into the game when I noticed that tax men yeild 2 and scientists 3.

2. When the second civ entered the Iron Working era, I felt like I was at war with the Hasademian Barbs! They certiatnely have bothered me much more than any of the offical rivals, forcing many of my workers to switch the areas they were improving.

3. Unless the AIs can switch govts very quickly even with non-religious, the Tribal Council govt should either be removed or else non-religious AIs should be taught not to switch to it. (What's the point falling behind by a tech researching a govt with that minor an improvement if your not religious.)

4. A Religious human player could really exploit going back and forth between Orthogophy [sp] and Monarchy. Alas, I'm Egypt in this game.

5. It was only a few turns ago that anyone made contact with the Greeks. Are they supposed to be a virtual non-factor?

6. Discovered AI exploit accidently: Blocking AI workers off from their homeland freezes them in place. (I founded a city near the distination of the Phonicean workers and placed a unit blocking out any future settlement at the same time, and those workers sat there until I founded a city close enough to that bottleneck where I felt comfortable releasing the one tile block at which point the phoenican workers started heading home.

7. Phoenican AI (and presumably others) needs taught to build culture improvements when in a potiential tug of war situation with a luxary colony just outside their borders. (They are about to lose possesion of the wine in the Sinai to me since I finished the Cerminal Mound in eastern Egypt before they did.)

8. None of the AIs have tried to settle Northern Africa behind me yet? (I presume that at least one of the Phoenicans, Greeks, and Hities are sea faring)

Current colonization of Africa status: I've pretty much have Egypt proper settled, except for my planned South Eastern most Red sea city [settler almost finished]. I think I'm slightly into Libya along the coast, settler and warrior pair are on their way to the incense. [loose city spacing in that section, choser in most.)

	11-11-2003 07:16									#38
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quote: 4. A Religious human player could really exploit going back and forth between Orthogophy [sp] and Monarchy. Alas, I'm Egypt in this game.

I'm assuming you mean Oligarchy, but what do you mean, as far as I could see the only difference is in their rush method isn't it? Unless there was a difference in corruption and/or war wariness. Nevertheless, for such a building oriented scenario, the best method is probably to get Oligarchy and tough it out in that the whole way through

	11-11-2003 07:53									#39
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Uber: I agree

It seemed to me the key was to force myself to stop building more cities and focus on maybe 3 super cities (and newer ones would send settlers) While there's lots of land, there's not a lot of time.

	11-11-2003 22:52									#40
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I just finished the game as the Phoenicians on Monarch. Took ~6 hrs. The last few turns were very interesting as everyone was at war. Fortunately I was able to hold off Hittite and Egyptian chariots with my Tyrian Guard units. It helped that I had built the Temple of Zeus and therefore was pumping out veteran units. When I finally built the Great Lighthouse I'm not sure I would have been able to hold off Egypt much longer. I did have fortresses though at the narrow bridge at the Sinai peninsula with fortified guard units but Egypt was throwing quite a few chariots and swordmen at them.

I did get a Scientific GL late in the game which I rushed the temple of Zeus with.

I built all the wonders except for the Hanging gardens. Would have built it but I decided to go to Monarchy since I was an economic powerhouse with all my coastal cities and the Anarchy period slowed me down enough so I didn't build it.

Seafaring turned out to be a great trait in this conquest due to the extra commerce and early civ contact.

The Greeks were a factor in my game. I was able to contact them early and do some good trading. They also attacked me by getting a ROP/MPP agreement with me and then attacking an undefended city. Sneaky Greeks! Later in the game when I was at war with Egypt, Babylon, and the Hittites they came to my assistance after I bribed them with tech and they declared war on the Hittites.

Here is a picture of Phoenicia just after the Mycaeneans (Greeks) destroyed one of my northern cities. Unfortunately I forgot to take the end game pic.

Last edited by SirOsis on 11-11-2003 at 23:01

	12-11-2003 05:28									#41
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Monarchy allows cash-rushing / Oligarchy allows pop-rushing.

Religious player could effectively alternate between cash-rushing and pop-rushing.

As Non-Religous, yes the only plan that makes sense is stay at Despotism until you get to Oligarchy, then switch to that and stay there. (Oligarchy corruption is similar to Democracy in normal games / Monarchy appears normal for Monarchy.)

quote: Originally posted by JamesJKirk I'm assuming you mean Oligarchy, but what do you mean, as far as I could see the only difference is in their rush method isn't it? Unless there was a difference in corruption and/or war wariness. Nevertheless, for such a building oriented scenario, the best method is probably to get Oligarchy and tough it out in that the whole way through

	12-11-2003 05:36									#42
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My plan as Egypt was to move the northern settler north a couple of tiles and found the other two in place. Focus was on that relocated northern settler to build a baracks and then nothing but war chariots to keep my army big enough to prevent Pheonicans from getting upity.

Thebes & Memphis were planned as wonder building cities from the getgo and made it a high priority irrigating the desert in the region (right after mining the grassland & irrigating plains.) Thebes being better of course having built the HG and currently building the big Temple. Memphis is currently building the Mascuelous. I completed Worker Houser in both cities prior to starting wonders. I didn't enter the running for the Colosus : Alexandra too busy building a Court House, but I do plan to have that compete and worker housing just prior to getting the tech for the Great Lighthouse. I anticipate that the only wonder I won't complete will be the above mentioned Colosus unless an AI gets a SL reseraching techs in the Iron branch.

	12-11-2003 05:38									#43
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Looking at the game SirOsis finished, why didn't you buy some WMs the turn before? It's not like you can cash rush on Oligarchy?

	12-11-2003 06:54									#44
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WMs?

	12-11-2003 07:16									#45
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World Map, I'd assume.

	12-11-2003 07:24									#46
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Never really considered it. I could see where most of the other civs are and I planned on expanding onto the islands I'd already explored to keep getting the Seafaring commerce bonus. I felt I would be able to keep the islands through naval superiority instead of expanding overland. I also was saving some cash for when I changed my Gov't to Monarch.

	12-11-2003 22:14									#47
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I should also say that it is critical to gain a foothold in the north because that is where your only iron is found. Should the game last near the 160 turns the ability to build swordsmen will be helpful in defending your wonders.

	12-11-2003 23:02									#48
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Interesting CP, SirOsis. What was your thinking?

	13-11-2003 02:11									#49
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I really didn't have much of a plan. I wanted to jump right into a conquest so I chose Mesopotamia. I did play the tutorials first to get an idea of how the game played. Anyway here are some thoughts on what I thought would work.

I chose Phoenicia because I wanted to try out the Seafaring trait. The extra commerce sounded like a great thing to me and I wanted to see how the Curragh handled. You are given 3 settlers to start and I think I settled 2 on the first turn and moved the northern most settler to a position next to the river.

I built Curraghs early on so I could explore the sea. I also wanted to maximize the commerce bonus by settling on coast squares. I didn't really realize how great the Cedars were until later on. I was going to chop down the forests to give me some quick production early on but the Cedars are much better than grassland so I didn't chop em.

Egypt was my first encounter as they moved into the Sinai peninsula with an archer and settler. I did not want Egypt to expand into this area because I had already begun building roads to build a city near the gems in the mountains. My warrior killed the archer and I got a couple workers. (I like the new worker animations with them in chains pounding on a stake with a big rock when mining) I had 3 warriors in the vicinity so I was able to attack and destroy an Egyptian city where the one you can see in the pic is. I considered advancing farther and settling near the gold in the hills but the Egyptian forces were too strong and I retreated and signed a peace treaty. Egypt was contained!

During this period I was able to explore and contact all the other civs. I also had quite a good research rate and enough gold to buy techs. I could also trade my contacts with other civs for other techs I needed which resulted in me leading the tech race. I made a beeline for Epic Buiding(?) so I could build the pyramids and traded for most of the other techs.

I felt that I needed to settle the river to the east since it would be a good border and allow my cities to grow without aqueducts.

I did not build much of a military the first few turns and eventually signed a MPP/ROP with the Mycaneans for a tech I think. A mistake, however, since they sent a warrior and attacked and destroyed my newly founded city in the north which I had planned on building cultural improvements to take Kummanni.

I also was playing for a longer term than the 160 turns. It was hard to get in the mindset that the scenario is for a set time and when the wonders are built the game is over.

I was able to build 6 of the 7 wonders and at near the end of the game everyone was at war. I think there was a Hittite, Babylon alliance and I was at war with the Hittites and Egypt. The Hittites were at war with myself and Myceneans and Persia and the Sumerians were at war with one another.

I had built 2 fortresses at the choke point with Egypt. Their city had expanded culturally so I had to back up a space and build 2 to block that land bridge. I would not have gone to war with Egypt except I thought I had blocked sea access to me with Curraghs but I forgot a space and Egypt landed a horseman next to Tyre. Fortunately I had a Tyrian Guard destroy that horseman before any of my cities could be taken. Curraghs can transport units in this scenario. Something I didn't realize until later or I might have settled the island to the west sooner than I did.

So I had to defend 3 fronts. The North where the Hittite hordes were decending on me with 3-men chariots. The East where Babylonians were coming across the desert. The South where Egyptian chariots and swordsmen were trying to beat down my defenders in their fortresses. All this was going on while I was researching Seafaring(?) so I could build the Great Lighthouse. I was prebuilding a P and FP so I would be ready when the time came. In the meantime all my cities were pumping out veteran Tyrian Guard units due to having the Temple of Zeus in Tyre.


Eventually I settled 2 cities on the island to the west and built the Lighthouse in 1 turn. I was quite happy with the outcome. The last few turns were hectic with so many attackers and my generally weak military position but in the end Phonicia triumphed!

	13-11-2003 06:00									#50
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In my current game aprox 10 turns before I win, the iron was found just outside the inital CR of my then current most NWern most city when I bought the tech. The settler in route to that area (last to be built) picked a location that resulted in the iron coming within my borders. ( I've decided to reserach the two additional ones that would allow upgrading my armies if I mine the road inside if the first of these hasn't been researched yet.) I have about 1280 cash and nothing to spend it on until the iron is hooked up and of course it will be easier to spend it when the Statue of Zeus completes so I don't have to manually move units around.

Game is going to end anyway right after my War Chariots can be upgraded with me winning if my MPP partner the Phoenicans don't betray me. I haven't been at war with anyone except the barbs all game.

	13-11-2003 06:08									#51
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Well, the Phoenican version of the WM was much more extensive than I anticipated it to be in my game.

I did buy everyones WMs (Babs was almost worthless, costing me only 10 gold.), for the Greeks I gave them payment mostly in Stone Age techs. The Hities and Phoenicans got some Iron Age techs [in one case I added cash and in the other they added cash], others got pure cash. I wanted to see the lay of the land, especally for the competing wonder building cities.

Apprently the only section nobody bothered to explore was non-coastal North Africa [west of my own limits], the Mediterian, and a few land tiles near the Black sea but in that case the Hities already had units on their way to explore there. I have doughts that the AIs will be doing much sea exploring unless me owning Navigation is enough for them to safely explore the seas.

Edit: Game now over, just won. I had money left over when I masively upgraded my army from Warriors to Companion Inf and War Chariots to Chavarly two turns before finishing the last wonder (Great Light House)

There were still 2 required techs in the Iron Age remaning, so the Age of Empire wasn't reached. And my only war was with Barbs the entire game.

Last edited by joncnunn on 14-11-2003 at 05:22

	18-11-2003 21:17									#52
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I just finished a Monarch game as the Sumerians. Not much to tell.

Built all 7 Wonders. Only battles were w/ Barbs. Babylon was my closest competitor.

I'll probably try this scenario again at a higher difficulty and as a diferent civ.

The tech tree was interesting. Had to completely readjust my 'preconcieved tech-researching notions'.

	08-12-2003 15:06									#53
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I just played this one again as well on Monarch. I only managed to get 2 wonders though . . I played as the Egyptians- so I don't exactly have that much productive land. 2 wonders and my high population was enough to win the game for me.

2 hours, 2 minutes, and 2 seconds .

I was hoping to beat my older score. You would think I would being a higher difficulty level. But I did only get 2 wonders vs. the 7 I got before. I really thought I would get more wonders. They go quick.

yeah I know the Mycanea and the Egyptians- very easily defendable civs- though the barbarians harrassed me as the Egyptians. Next time I will play the babylonians- a civ in the middle- I promise