08-11-2003 02:57									#1
	The Mesopotamia thread Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Here is my Mesopotamia-specific thread.

I started with this Conquest. Why? Because it was the first one.

I decided to play as Sumeria to test the new civ out, on Sid level to test the new level out.

I started with three groups of units. Each contained a settler and an Enkidu Warrior, and there were two workers among the three of them. (I think that's right, I don't remember exactly) The Enkidu Warriors are equal on attack and defense, so I decided to "use Sumerian Enkidu Warriors to quickly achieve military dominance" as the previews said I would be able to do for so long. I knew Babylon had to be pretty close to me, so I sent the three starting EWs to the northwest to fight. I found Babylon in a few turns, and immediately attacked. My glorious Enkidu warriors were victorious.

I expanded a great deal, so now I am the largest. The AI isn't behaving at all like PTW's AI. It's expanding very little. Maybe because wonders are worth victory points it is more focused on building up.

I declared war on Babylon again to sieze Nineveh recently. When the Egyptians completed the Colossus really fast after getting bronze working, I realized that I won't get many wonders. The game's gonna be me against the clock. I will quickly achieve military dominance, but will I be quick enough?

Screenshots coming.

	08-11-2003 03:12									#2
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My empire

	08-11-2003 03:12									#3
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Techy

	08-11-2003 03:19									#4
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My thoughts on the tech tree: I'm researching the bottom half. I researched writing, tribal council code of laws, etc. Irrigation is also a must for the Sumer civ (also the other river civs- Babylon and Egypt.) For Phoenicia or Mycenae, Sailing and Astronomy look much more useful, so I would go that way.

	08-11-2003 04:02									#5
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Played some more. Scratch that about the AI not expanding. It was just the Babylonians. I caused them to "turtle." However, the Medeans are about twice my size, so this should be fun.

	08-11-2003 05:29									#6
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Can you do me a favor and post the other 2 tech trees. I have no clue what they look like, but I'd really like to know.

	08-11-2003 06:11									#7
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Second era techy:



The third era only has 5 techs - Literature, Philosophy, Monotheism, Drama, and Republic. Republic requires Literature and Philosophy, and Drama requires Literature. I don't want to waste upload space on it.

	08-11-2003 06:22									#8
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I quit my game. The Medeans in Iran and the Phoenicians signed an MPP, so I can't expand. Meanwhile, Egypt built their 5th wonder. Because I can't even conquer Egypt's neighbor, there's no way I'll get to them and annihilate them completely before the last wonder is built.

I do think it is beatable as the Sumerians on Sid. It's necessary to trim Babylon, and then go for all civs that have at least two wonders more than you. If they have only one, you can compensate with fighting victory points. (You get them for conquering cities and killing units)

	08-11-2003 06:37									#9
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Cool thanks for the tech tree. I'm planning to eventually mod the game with a few changed (mainly I'll just add the Assyrians, but I might do a few other things).

Beat it on Sid? Wow, that sounds impressive. I guess Enkidu's are really good.

IIRC, Warriors are supposed to be 2.1.1 (so the Enkidu is 2.2.1) is that right? What stats do Archers and Bowman get? What's the point of Chariotry?

I could bomb you with questions all day, so I guess I'll just wait until I get the game.

	08-11-2003 07:06									#10
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I did not beat it on Sid. The Phoenician-Medean alliance made it impossible. If they hadn't signed MPP I might have been able to. I think it is definitely possible.

This conquest is probably gonna be one of the toughest to beat on sid, because it focuses a lot on expanding over land, the Civ3 AI's strongest point.

Warriors are 2.1.1, Enkidus are 2.2.1. The trouble is that the AI uses warriors for defense quite frequently, which is rather silly, especially when it's being attacked by other warriors.

Archers are 3.1.1, Bowmen are 3.2.1.

Chariotry is the advance required for War Chariots and Three Man Chariots. Since I was Sumerian, the advance was useless to me.

Feel free to ask any questions you want.

	08-11-2003 07:34									#11
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That's good for now

Although 3.1.1 Archers makes it seem tough to get any defense until Spears (4 techs minimum)

What are Spears, btw?

	08-11-2003 08:10									#12
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Spears are 2.3.1

Hoplites are 2.4.1

Phoenician Spearmen (forget its name) are 3.3.1

	08-11-2003 08:45									#13
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JW, I love HyperSnap and have a lic, but if you want to avoid the promo banner, get Irfanview. It is free and can take screens from Civ. Otherwise you have to have a lic to not get the banner.

	08-11-2003 08:50									#14
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The banner really bothers you that much?

	08-11-2003 09:44									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior Spears are 2.3.1 Hoplites are 2.4.1 Phoenician Spearmen (forget its name) are 3.3.1

That's what I would have expected. It gives me a few editing ideas as well.

	08-11-2003 21:07									#16
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Fun conquest. I played as Mycenae on Monarch and won fairly easily. I expanded and held the Bosporus (for a couple reasons, I won't spoil it) and a few cities on asia minor (I thought there was some hint to do so, but didn't get anything out of it) and crete. Built 5 of the GW's and won before the tech tree was completed.

Fun stuff, but I would like to play an all out game like that rahter than ending with the wonders, may want to mod it, and increase the number of turns. I didn't attack anyting other than barbs the whole time.

	08-11-2003 21:34									#17
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Mesopotamia is a great scenario. But it is really easy if you play the Egyptians because you can expand all you want along the Nile and the African coast, without worrying about war since your only threat is from the Phoenicians. I played the enitre scenario without one war, just expanded, built up and completed all 7 wonders myself!

	09-11-2003 05:02									#18
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Mesopotamia totally changes its character on the higher levels...up to Monarch, and for some Civs (Mycenae) also Emperor, it can be a peaceful Builder's game, but above that, it's really a challenge, involving lots of warfare (try Medeans on Emperor+, and you'll see what I mean). Also, Egypt is easily the hardest Civ on the higher levels (and the easiest on Regent and below), due to the horrible uprisings, and having only the Phoenicians nearby, who happen to have a defensive UU at the same time as Egypts War Chariot.

	09-11-2003 21:47									#19
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Well, I tried my first scenario last night, also as Sumeria, and got beat on the clock by about 2000 VP... didn't focus enough on the victory locations I think.

Fun!!

	09-11-2003 23:17									#20
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For those who have played now, which AIs were the best? The Egyptians ran away with the wonder building in my game. The Hittites and Medeans were huge as well, but they only had one wonder between the two of them.


(Basically I'm trying to figure out which civs should be targets for the Deity/Sid player to eliminate first)

	09-11-2003 23:48									#21
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I was hesitant to start as the Mycenaens because it is believed they were wiped out by volcanoes, but I started anyways. I looked around at the map and quit. There is only one river in some hills, and I don't think they had Terrace farming back then, so they are SOL for irrigation.

I then started Napoleon as Britain, but everyone else started allying against ME!!!

NExt I went for the Middle Ages as the Byzantines, but then remembered the Christians will be pounding on my door to get to Jerusalem, and the Turks will come from the other direction.

I think I'll try as the Franks.

	10-11-2003 00:05									#22
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Hey, what are the stats of Chariots, War Chariots, 3-Man Chariots, Horsemen, Ancient Cavalry, Swordsmen, and Companions?

I thought I'd get to the point

I'm starting to like this scenario again (My interest had declined after a designer diary that didn't impress me). Is it just me, or do are more techs definately needed?

	10-11-2003 02:29									#23
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 JW, I love HyperSnap and have a lic, but if you want to avoid the promo banner, get Irfanview. It is free and can take screens from Civ. Otherwise you have to have a lic to not get the banner.

You can also use the print-screen key and paste it into a paint program. No banner ads.

	10-11-2003 03:09									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Chieftess You can also use the print-screen key and paste it into a paint program. No banner ads.

I used to do that, but I got a new keyboard recently, and for some reason unknown to me, print screen doesn't work anymore.

	10-11-2003 03:45									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Chieftess You can also use the print-screen key and paste it into a paint program. No banner ads.

Yes, but I like the ability to resize and save as jpeg that is part of Irfanview. I use Hyper for games like Moo2 as I can not capture those screens with any other tools. Hyper also has an easy to use crop tool. I have PhotoShop, but it take longer to load. I can just slam screens out in a hurry with the other tools.

Anyway it was just an FYI, not important.

	10-11-2003 05:19									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV Hey, what are the stats of Chariots, War Chariots, 3-Man Chariots, Horsemen, Ancient Cavalry, Swordsmen, and Companions? I thought I'd get to the point I'm starting to like this scenario again (My interest had declined after a designer diary that didn't impress me). Is it just me, or do are more techs definately needed?

Chariots- 2-1-2 cost 30
Three Man Chariots- 3-2-2 cost 40
War Chariots- 3-1-2 cost 30
Horsemen- 3-2-2 cost 40
Cavalry- 5-2-2 cost 50
Swordsmen- 4-3-1- cost 40
Companion Infantry- 5-4-1 cost 50

	10-11-2003 05:47									#27
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Thanks

Do Spears cost 20 or 30?

Than I'll stop bugging you until I get the game

	10-11-2003 06:57									#28
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20

	10-11-2003 07:20									#29
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I started a third game on this conquest, again Sumerians, but this time on Demigod. (My second game was Egypt on Sid, and I lost.) I conquered the first three Babylonian cities and eliminated them. I'm actually building the Colossus and Pyramids, and I think I have a pretty good shot. One of the AIs might get more wonders, but I have plenty of time to attack if I feel like they're in danger of winning.

	10-11-2003 09:16									#30
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Mesopotamia is a great scenario. But it is really easy if you play the Egyptians because you can expand all you want along the Nile and the African coast, without worrying about war since your only threat is from the Phoenicians. I played the enitre scenario without one war, just expanded, built up and completed all 7 wonders myself!

No Nubians to the south? That sucks