09-11-2003 08:39									#1
	What is the role of prison? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Is it to punish the criminals because they deserve it? Is it to deter people from committing crimes? Is it to fix the people who have committed crimes and turn them into good people who won't do it again? And that brings up another question. Does rehabilitation work?

By deciding what the role of prison is could definitely be helpful in deciding whether or not the death penalty should be legal, whether or not cruel and/or unusual punishment should be allowed, and in deciding what to do to criminals when they've been convicted.

	09-11-2003 08:41									#2
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A cheap, reliable source for human experimentation?

	09-11-2003 08:43									#3
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quote: Is it to punish the criminals because they deserve it? Is it to deter people from committing crimes? Is it to fix the people who have committed crimes and turn them into good people who won't do it again?

D) All of the above

	09-11-2003 08:44									#4
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I would say punishment.
And that is the way I would like it if I felt all laws were just.

	09-11-2003 08:48									#5
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Idealistically it's to make sure prisoners (once released) never commit the crime again.
However because of normal human behavior, it's been reduced to simply a means of punishment.

	09-11-2003 08:49									#6
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If the reason is punishment then, how does it help? A person murders another person. How does it help that the murdere is punished. How does it make things better?

And if punishment is the reason, shouldn't cruel punishment be allowed? What if they deserve it? Should OBL get it?

And, is it our place to say what people deserve?

	09-11-2003 08:50									#7
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Basically it depends on the age, or to be more correct in modern terms, it depends on what's this years fashion.

	09-11-2003 08:51									#8
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod If the reason is punishment then, how does it help?

It doesn't.

quote: And if punishment is the reason, shouldn't cruel punishment be allowed?

That would require us admitting to ourselves the real reason for prisons in our society.

quote: What if they deserve it? Should OBL get it?

No.

quote: And, is it our place to say what people deserve?

No.

	09-11-2003 08:52									#9
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod If the reason is punishment then, how does it help? A person murders another person. How does it help that the murdere is punished. How does it make things better? And if punishment is the reason, shouldn't cruel punishment be allowed? What if they deserve it? Should OBL get it? And, is it our place to say what people deserve?

1) biggest reason is to be sure they do not do it again, or retaliate against the victim. I think only a good punishment will break a criminal's will.

2) I am all for cruel punishment. Luckily for the prisoners, the constitution frowns upon it. To me, all punishment is cruel, or it wouldn't be punishment.

3) If not us, who?

	09-11-2003 08:54									#10
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quote: quote: quote: And, is it our place to say what people deserve? No

Indeed, but it is society's place (IE the judge)

	09-11-2003 08:57									#11
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No it isn't

	09-11-2003 09:02									#12
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ok, Tass, you give the answer then.
( we are talking about a criminal...)

	09-11-2003 09:07									#13
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This is an extremely stupid and assanine thread (and I really mean this) but what the hell I've participated in worse.

quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod If the reason is punishment then, how does it help?

It sends the message that commiting crimes is wrong and stops people from taking the law into their own hands. Unless of course roving mobs of vigilantes appeals to you on a visceral level.

quote: And, is it our place to say what people deserve?

We went to the trouble of catching them. What fun would there be in simply letting them go after that?

	09-11-2003 09:19									#14
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Ideally, prison should be used to rehabilitate people and put them in a controlled environment so they don't have the chance to hurt others in the mean time.

But in reality, prison is generally little more than a mechanism for state-sponsored revenge.

	09-11-2003 09:21									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo But in reality, prison is generally little more than a mechanism for state-sponsored revenge.

Only if you do it correctly.

	09-11-2003 09:26									#16
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You're pushing me into Godwin's Law territory.

	09-11-2003 09:28									#17
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quote: Ideally, prison should be used to rehabilitate people and put them in a controlled environment so they don't have the chance to hurt others in the mean time.

I consider myself to be a more or less left wing person, but there there should be some punishment too IMO. There's something called victims...., remember them?
(and again, I do mean criminals, not someone being arrested for smoking a joint or something)

	09-11-2003 09:31									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo You're pushing me into Godwin's Law territory.

	09-11-2003 09:32									#19
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What about them? Whatever was done to them, inflicting needless punishment on prisoners doesn't do anything to redress the act.

	09-11-2003 09:35									#20
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Sure you're from texas???!!??

	09-11-2003 09:35									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Whatever was done to them, inflicting needless punishment on prisoners doesn't do anything to redress the act.

We really aren't talking about needlessly punishing them. Ideally any workable rehabilitation program is going to incorporate some sort of punishment element (Remember the whole taking away your freedom thing). This also has a benefit of filling the deterence role as well.

	09-11-2003 09:49									#22
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I am talking about needless punishment, since that's what criminal justice systems generally are about (for instance, look the death penalty). When the state inflicts punishment, revenge, not simply deterrence or rehabilitation, is a primary motivation.

quote: Sure you're from texas???!!??

Strictly speaking, Austin really isn't part of the rest of Texas. It's the San Francisco of the South.

	09-11-2003 10:20									#23
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Is it to fix the people who have committed crimes and turn them into good people who won't do it again?

Yes.

Does rehabilitation work?

Yes.

	09-11-2003 12:58									#24
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Basically to remove unwanteds from society.

I can care less about rehabilitation or punishment. Get these dickweeds out of my face. I would like to walk down the street without being attacked.

**** em'. If they can't keep their violent tendencies to themselves they don't belong in society.

	09-11-2003 15:33									#25
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I think there is some contradiction in terms going on here. punishing is what's going on. The reason for the punishment are various: re-education, deterring others, isolating the criminal from society, and even, perhaps, revenge. To say that the reason they put criminals in jail is punishment, resembles saying that reason a person was given a certain job is so that he'll work. It is true, but is rather obvious.

	09-11-2003 16:23									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel that reason a person was given a certain job is so that he'll work.

Obviously.

	09-11-2003 16:42									#27
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Number 1 priority is to keep criminals from harrasing the ones who play by the rules. For example violent criminals. Keep the people safer.

Then comes punishing for the crime they did.

Then comes the rehab thing, trying to make these people bounce back to the good side and if they have obvious problems, try working on them.

	09-11-2003 16:49									#28
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I disagree. It's much more important to rehab the criminal than it is to punish them because punishment (well, severe punishment) would breed resentment, which is counter to the rehabilitation objective.

	09-11-2003 16:54									#29
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Punishing is there to show that society doesn´t accept when someone goes over the line, so it is not only pure evilness against the poor prisoner, it is also to initiate a learning process (ok, ideally) Personally I think punishment and rehab efforts should be on the same level.

	09-11-2003 17:39									#30
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people are put in prison in order to create a scary law-enforcing image to those who are not in prison