09-11-2003 20:14									#1
	South Carolina Drug Sweep: Police State? Tired of ads?

quote: November 8, 2003 S.C. Probes High School Drug Sweep By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 4:30 p.m. ET GOOSE CREEK, S.C. (AP) -- State police are investigating a drug sweep in which more than a dozen local officers charged into a crowded high school hallway with their guns drawn and handcuffed students. No drugs or weapons were found during the sweep, and there were no drug-related arrests. Videotape from Stratford High School surveillance cameras Wednesday morning shows dozens of students, some of them handcuffed, sitting on a hallway floor against the walls as police officers watch them with guns drawn and police dogs sniff backpacks and bags strewn across the hall. ``I'm absolutely outraged,'' said Danny Partin, whose stepson attends Stratford. ``This is supposed to be a free country, not a police state.'' Prosecutor Ralph Hoisington told the Charleston Post & Courier in Saturday editions that he asked the State Law Enforcement Division on Friday to look into possible police misconduct. ``I don't think there's anything wrong at all with law enforcement addressing a problem in a high school, but I have serious concerns about the need for restraining students and drawing weapons,'' Hoisington said. ``I don't want to send my child to a school and find out guns are drawn on them.'' Investigators should have called suspected students to the principal's office to check their bags for drugs if they believed there was drug-dealing going on, said Graham Boyd, director of the drug policy project for the American Civil Liberties Union. ``You absolutely cannot bring police with guns drawn into a school,'' Boyd said. He called the search illegal. Stratford Principal George McCrackin said that he had talked with police about what he called a growing drug problem at the school and that the police responded. The students didn't know what was happening when the officers rushed in, student Maurice Harris Jr. told NBC's ``Today'' show Saturday. ``I was frightened because they had guns in their hands,'' Harris said. ``I thought one of the guns was going to go off and shoot or kill somebody, so I just got down to my knees and covered my head for protection.'' Goose Creek police Lt. Dave Aarons said the guns were drawn as ``a matter of officer safety.'' ``I don't think it was an overreaction,'' he said. ``Anytime you have qualified information regarding drugs and large amounts of money, there's a reasonable assumption weapons are involved.'' The officers handcuffed students who failed to ``respond to repeated police instruction,'' Aarons said. The only charge stemming from the raid involved a ninth-grader who was cited for allegedly filing a false police report, saying an officer shoved her to the ground during the search, Aarons said. McCrackin said he, other school officials and the girl's parent reviewed video surveillance tapes and determined the girl wasn't in that hall at the time.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nat...-Drug-Raid.html

I was appalled when I saw this on the news. What a bunch of fascist cops. Going into a school like that, handcuffing innocent students, and conducting a search with guns drawn as all those kids cower in fear. And BTW, that search turned up nothing. I'd like to know what led the police to do that raid. If they had specific information about some students, those students should have been removed quietly. That blatant show of force is disgusting. I'm concerned that this is a trend in the United States that we are turning into a police state.

	09-11-2003 20:30									#2
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and cops are supposed to be the "good guys"

not when they act like this . . .

	09-11-2003 20:41									#3
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I wish I lived in that high school, as I would enjoy the college and first house the cops would be paying me, following the lawsuits.

	09-11-2003 21:06									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen I wish I lived in that high school, as I would enjoy the college and first house the cops would be paying me, following the lawsuits.

Exactly what I was thinking, except I would buy a house with that money out of the city, because 1) The School District will be bankrupt once the lawyers are finished, and 2) Look at how their cops act in that town.

	09-11-2003 21:38									#5
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I wonder how much chance any complaint has in court.

	09-11-2003 21:41									#6
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Very good chance. Police are drawing guns on "children".

These poor children will not be able to study, suffer from PTSD, be afraid to go to school, need to switch schools. Hee hee.

	09-11-2003 21:46									#7
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there's a fine line between using just enough force as necessary, and overdoing it.

unless these cops somehow felt threatened when they went into the school, i cannot think of a reason why they'd need their guns drawn.

	09-11-2003 22:20									#8
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I used to think that such practices have been deemed legal before in the "war" on drugs. The cases would usually have been concerning members of the underclass, so I'd see this just as an expansion of that practice. Was that school primarily frequented by middle class children?

	09-11-2003 23:34									#9
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This is twisted, brutal and wrong.

For more information check out www.YouthRights.org.

E-mail the school Principal here:
GeorgeMcCrackin@Berkeley.k12.sc.us

	10-11-2003 00:20									#10
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler I used to think that such practices have been deemed legal before in the "war" on drugs. The cases would usually have been concerning members of the underclass, so I'd see this just as an expansion of that practice. Was that school primarily frequented by middle class children?

Them boys is stretchin' it a fair bit, though.

The whole "guns drawn" and charge in thing is quite permissible when serving a search or arrest warrant and there is probable cause to believe the subjects covered under the warrant are armed or likely to forcibly resist. Public safety is also supposed to be an issue, i.e. you don't do a Wyatt Earp in crowded shopping mall.

The supposed authority to go into the school was that tha man done viewed some videotapes of unAmerican dope dealing rat there in that very hall.

Unfortunately, cracker cops or not, that doesn't equate to either probable cause to believe any particular suspect will resist. So the cops are screwed here, and rightly so.

	10-11-2003 00:22									#11
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quote: Goose Creek police Lt. Dave Aarons said the guns were drawn as ``a matter of officer safety.''

Yeah, sure, like a high school kid is going to shoot back.

I can understand the chance of fighting back if it were a shady crack house or something, but IT'S A ****ING SCHOOL. With KIDS.

quote: 1) The School District will be bankrupt once the lawyers are finished,

The police department probably will be as well, and what's ironic is they'd probably have to cut protection to make up for cuts resulting from any lawsuit.

Well, you give up reasonable rights in a school building (lockers can be searched is one)...backpack searches are understandable as well...but handcuffing kids, holding guns to their heads? That's such a grossly excessive abuse of power...

What's more worrying is the thought that there are kids somewhere that are stupid enough to fight back against the officers. I can see the headlines now: "Drug Sweep Leaves 3 Dead", "Officer Says Firing Was in Self-Defense"...call it a nightmare situation, but police departments shouldn't even be opening themselves up to that kind of risk at all.

	10-11-2003 00:30									#12
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"Them boys is stretchin' it a fair bit, though."

Well they have their excuse:

"Anytime you have qualified information regarding drugs and large amounts of money, there's a reasonable assumption weapons are involved.''

"The officers handcuffed students who failed to "respond to repeated police instruction,'' Aarons said."

So what does it take? Is that suspicion enough? If there has been a gun problem at that school before, would that be enough?

	10-11-2003 00:32									#13
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I woulda been handcuffed. I woulda been standing there telling the cops they had no right and screaming about the Constitution off the top of my mouth.

	10-11-2003 01:57									#14
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I woulda been handcuffed. I woulda been standing there telling the cops they had no right and screaming about the Constitution off the top of my mouth.

Most high school students don't know what the constitution is, let alone thier rights under it, and that's what Ashcroft and the rest of his G-men want.

	10-11-2003 03:02									#15
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I used to live in Goose Creek!

I'm so proud. I went to prototype at the Charlesont Naval Weapons station which is located adjacent to goose creek.

The video is a bit disturbing. It seemed like every student was forced to put their hands on their head. And they found nothing . All for silly things like drugs.

	10-11-2003 03:03									#16
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Yeah, sure, like a high school kid is going to shoot back.

a kid at my highschool was arrested for having a gun on him, in the school, and he sold weed. i'm assuming the cops were told this was a "big operation", and they very well could have had guns.

you'd all be singing a different tune if an officer was paralyzed after the raid.

	10-11-2003 03:05									#17
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I woulda been handcuffed. I woulda been standing there telling the cops they had no right and screaming about the Constitution off the top of my mouth.

If you start spouting off the constitution they will know you aren't an american student and are a terrorist. That's a good way to get yourself killed.

	10-11-2003 04:31									#18
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no real american knows the constitution.

did they have dogs in the school to sniff out drugs? probably would have worked a helluva lot better with a helluva lot less backlash.

	10-11-2003 05:29									#19
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quote: a kid at my highschool was arrested for having a gun on him, in the school, and he sold weed. i'm assuming the cops were told this was a "big operation", and they very well could have had guns.

There's not enough chance of fighting back with kids to warrant having guns out and drawn.

quote: you'd all be singing a different tune if an officer was paralyzed after the raid.

Yeah, and you would if a kid got shot and killed.

	10-11-2003 05:43									#20
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Well the courts have ruled that student in school can be searched any time during school with out the students permission or a warrent. I dont think that this was an illiegal search. If the police thought they the students had drugs on them from what they were told. So the police acted in this way. No one was arrested and if the students are not dealing with drugs they have nothing to worry about.

	10-11-2003 05:55									#21
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jack, the complaints are not about the search. it's about the method the search was carried out.

had the cops gone in without their guns drawn, this wouldn't be on the news.

	10-11-2003 05:56									#22
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they had to worry about accidently being shot- that's what they had to worry about.

They had to worry about the loss of dignity being treated like a common criminal. Every student was on their knees (a demeaning position) with their hands behind their head.

	10-11-2003 05:59									#23
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Yeah, sure, like a high school kid is going to shoot back. I can understand the chance of fighting back if it were a shady crack house or something, but IT'S A ****ING SCHOOL. With KIDS. The police department probably will be as well, and what's ironic is they'd probably have to cut protection to make up for cuts resulting from any lawsuit. Well, you give up reasonable rights in a school building (lockers can be searched is one)...backpack searches are understandable as well...but handcuffing kids, holding guns to their heads? That's such a grossly excessive abuse of power... What's more worrying is the thought that there are kids somewhere that are stupid enough to fight back against the officers. I can see the headlines now: "Drug Sweep Leaves 3 Dead", "Officer Says Firing Was in Self-Defense"...call it a nightmare situation, but police departments shouldn't even be opening themselves up to that kind of risk at all.

Yeah and Columbine High School never had any weapons in it.

No they didnt find any drugs, yes they had a few positive "Hits" by a Narcotics Dog, which is admissable in court

The Police were called because the School Dept. alerted them.

No I dont think it was the "Most appropriate" action, but as a former Law Enforcement official I see the need for containment...

Cuffs (Flexible or standards issue)

Weapons at the Ready..drawn not pointing but in the ready position

Ok..check this out..

High School calls Police Dept. to do a sweep.

They come in, laid back.."respectful" of the innocent age of the children and then a kid, fearing his getting caught because he felt the need to carry a firearm to school...decides to pull it aand it accidently goes off, because "The innocent age" this child has doesnt have any experience with safeties and a weapon "accidently going off"


I say the police could have acted perhaps with some additional restraint but surely well within their legal bounds, I mean, I know a little something of this, and no I am not a lawyer or an ambulance chaser whom could find some loophole..

I just think we need to look at the "Bigger Picture"

Drugs are illegal and cause a lot of problems.

Weapons are known to accompany drug/narcotics sales


School age kids are not immune to the peer pressures of a power trip.."Making" a name for themselves


Grandpa Troll

	10-11-2003 06:01									#24
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drugs only cause problems because they are illegal.

No reason to have guns draws and force students to their knees like some common whore.

	10-11-2003 06:04									#25
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i still do not understand why the cops felt so threatened that they had to go in with weapons drawn.

	10-11-2003 06:06									#26
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Versus Troll's own horror story, here's the other end of the spectrum:

-Cops come rushing in the building, order everyone to get down, have guns drawn. (What basically happened.) Group of stupid brats decides to fight back with guns or just mobbing the cop, and cops fire shots.

Honestly, if a little brat is going to fight back, he's going to do it whether the cops can beat the snot out of him or not. Especially if they've got the "peer pressure of a power trip" on them--think, he can tell his homies in the hood that he got gunned down by a real live cop! (He could probably brag about the huge out-of-court settlement he got for it too.)

	10-11-2003 06:14									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident drugs only cause problems because they are illegal. No reason to have guns draws and force students to their knees like some common whore.

You are wrong about that!

I am a recovering addict..I can tell you people dont think straight when on a 4 day "wired trip" on Chrystal Meth

People dont feel much when on Phencyclidine http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/pcp.html

Call it Love Boat (marijuana soaked), Angel Dust-(Powder form), "Green" (Parsley soaked)

Cocaine/Crack induced rages..

As for Guns drawn and children on their knees it is called containment

Peace

Grandpa Troll

	10-11-2003 06:51									#28
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I am fascinated where this doctrine that students don't have civil rights came from. The politicans tax people to pay for public schools making it harder for them to send their kids to private schools so most parents are effectively coerced into using the public schools, then once they have your children there, we're told your kids don't have rights like the rest of us. That's like telling everyone they have to show up at a government building once a week where their rights disappear and they can be searched at will...

On the other hand, police received a tip of a "crime" in progress so what are they supposed to do? If they were told a murder suspect was running around in a school full of kids, they'd have to go in armed and ready and if they didn't know what the suspect looked like they'd have to treat everyone as suspects.

	10-11-2003 07:08									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I am fascinated where this doctrine that students don't have civil rights came from. The politicans tax people to pay for public schools making it harder for them to send their kids to private schools so most parents are effectively coerced into using the public schools, then once they have your children there, we're told your kids don't have rights like the rest of us. That's like telling everyone they have to show up at a government building once a week where their rights disappear and they can be searched at will... On the other hand, police received a tip of a "crime" in progress so what are they supposed to do? If they were told a murder suspect was running around in a school full of kids, they'd have to go in armed and ready and if they didn't know what the suspect looked like they'd have to treat everyone as suspects.

Well, the school system called the police in and had surveillence tapes showing what was described as transactions. The school had years ago when I attended in the 1970's and to this date have the rights to search any person,place or thing on campus, after all, its not the kids personal property, its a public school, much like a govt. building or state owned property and thusly subject to search and seizure laws set aside by that body Political.

As for Doctrine of childrens civil rights, what about the untold innocent kids whom have to be subjected day in and day out to trafficking,usage and other dealings?

Its a shame we have to have this conversation, but drugs are an unfortunate part of society..and as "Ugly" as this Police action is being presented, its an even uglier situation having this in our school system.

Most folks state that these are kids..ok I agree.

So as innocent as these children are purported to be, as one child said in a post incident statement, "The school knows whom the dealers and users are, why not go after them?"

Ok, so now we have an admission from an "innocent"..

Or are these kids all innocent? I wasnt there..nor were you or anyone else posting here...all we know for sure is this:

A-The school admitted it had a problem

B-Called in professionals

C-No drugs, only tape evidence and positive "Hits" by a narcotics dog

D-Failure by "Innocent" kids to obey a lawful order of a Govt. Official..a police officer to obey a command..when they didnt they were restrained and put down on ground

E-No shots fired and a safe sweep completed

Peace

Grandpa Troll

	10-11-2003 07:11									#30
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Troll -

quote: You are wrong about that! I am a recovering addict..I can tell you people dont think straight when on a 4 day "wired trip" on Chrystal Meth

Ah, the good 'ol days! But I never killed or hurt anyone when not thinking "straight" so what "problem" did I cause?

quote: As for Guns drawn and children on their knees it is called containment

Yup. Gone are the days when warrants were served in a civil manner.

quote: Peace Grandpa Troll

Not much peace during war.