11-11-2003 10:57									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

you know bugs in the opening screen? unless you count setting up the game as playing.

I've been playing the WW2 scenario- had to try that one first.

I started as the U.S. The pearl harbour attack by the Japanese ai was pretty weak. I lost no battleships, and only one was damaged. Air bombardment is still very weak in this game. .

But I lost many of my green battleships battling the japanese navy. They have a formidable navy.

And I am impressed they too the Philappines so easily (and almost on time as well)

Though they razed Manila . It'll be kind of hard to return to a city that doesn't exist .

Though I'm still not sure how the victory points are attained. Anyone know? I sure hope Manila doesn't give victory points, because that city no longer exists. They also razed another city in the Philappines.

	11-11-2003 13:01									#32
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think you want to have a weak air bombardment given air bombardment has lethal land.

I already see an avenue of cheap human play where you just move stacks of bombers around blowing up cities and the move in with land forces afterwards. airbobmard is fine.

I certainly wished the effect of the pearl harbour bombing was more pronounced, but not at the expense of the larger gameplay balance.

	11-11-2003 18:07									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

I don't think conquests is any better then the original Civ3, really. It's still fundementally flawed in my opinion - too much number crunching and nonsensical micromangaing, not enough civilization building. (ie. too much 'powergaming', not enough 'roleplaying')

Not to mention that the huge map still takes forever to process turns on...

	11-11-2003 20:25									#34
	Support Apolyton

I think the first release of Civ 3 was plenty for a full game. My only complaint about that release would be:

The version of the game that came in the tin case was not worth its price.

The ending techs felt (and still feel) incomplete.

Still, it was plenty of game for release on its own.

No I don't think Civ3 with the other expansions should have been the first release.

	11-11-2003 21:51									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Osweld I don't think conquests is any better then the original Civ3, really. It's still fundementally flawed in my opinion - too much number crunching and nonsensical micromangaing, not enough civilization building. (ie. too much 'powergaming', not enough 'roleplaying') Not to mention that the huge map still takes forever to process turns on...

Micromanagement and number crunching is a matter of play style. I have no time or patience for the level crunching that some players here do, and I probably send my workers into automation far earlier than them as well. Yet I still manage to enjoy the game a great deal and play more to both win and enjoy, than to work the internal mechanization of the game to maximize a win.

To me, the ability to manage as little or as much as you choose, is one of the game's strengths.

	12-11-2003 01:12									#36
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

there are many automated features so you don't have to number crunch.

Of course you won't be able to play at the higher levels unless you micromanage everything.

But all civ games have been about micromanagement. Including civ2.

	17-11-2003 23:54									#37
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Well, as an example, Civ2 had the perfect amount of micromangement. Enough to take care of business, but not so much that it became boring (i.e. CTP). Civ3 has followed Civ2's legacy.

	18-11-2003 02:54									#38
	Increase Your PM Length

In answer to your question, yes this is Civilization III as was originally promised. You just had to pay $100 for it in three installments.

Editor still buggy as is the game and some of the scenarios still crash, but hey, its a FixAxis product.

Definitely worth the money though.

	18-11-2003 03:12									#39
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes, despite its weaknesses, it is definitely worth it!

	18-11-2003 03:31									#40
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Civ3 as originally promised?????

Can you find that promise anywhere?


Civ3 was published on time (well slightly early ), had few critical bugs and was never promised with multiplayer

2 years on it is still popular - what more do you want?

	18-11-2003 06:54									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

They always promise more than they deliver.

	18-11-2003 07:40									#42
	Put an end to popups!

quote: They always promise more than they deliver.

Sig material, AH.

	18-11-2003 07:50									#43
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Actually, if you waited as I did until two weeks ago to buy anything CIVIII, the whole thing was 70 bucks and that with the bonus CD. I read the forums and with all the negativity I patiently waited, ah such patience a true reward! And now in contrast to CIVII this baby is beautiful!!!

Antrine

	18-11-2003 16:22									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

But what have you been doing for the last 2 years?

	18-11-2003 16:35									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Antrine Actually, if you waited as I did until two weeks ago to buy anything CIVIII, the whole thing was 70 bucks and that with the bonus CD. I read the forums and with all the negativity I patiently waited, ah such patience a true reward! And now in contrast to CIVII this baby is beautiful!!! Antrine

Well, good for you! In the meantime we have played some wonderful games, including multiplayer (or just PBEM in my case) and democracy games and we helped with our comments and suggestions the developers to make the beautiful baby you enjoy so much

	18-11-2003 16:38									#46
	Put an end to popups!

As for the thread starter question:

1. From the PoV of what we were expecting: YES.

2. From the PoV of what could have been done two years ago to have the game we have today: NO.

	18-11-2003 18:25									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Right, Tiberius - the original question is basically meaningless, since it comes down to "Should this game have been better when it was originally released?" - which would be a non-question applied to anything.

	18-11-2003 18:31									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

How about my alternative question - would you rather have Firaxis et al spend the next 6-9 months working on producing another expansion with more tweaks, bells and whistles for CIV 3 or (probably spend longer and) start from scratch on producing a CIV 4?

	18-11-2003 18:43									#49
	Suffering from ads?

I'd prefer a new expansion for 2 reasons:

1. it'd take less (1 year for a new XP, at least 2 years for a new game)

2. I have no idea how a civ4 would be different. I haven't heard so far any groundbreaking idea of how civ4 should be different from civ3. Sure, there are some good suggestions out there (improved UN, a more flexible editor with events and whatnot, civil wars, etc) but other than that ??! How would these ideas make a new game different from a civ 3.5 ?

If Firaxis would have some fantastic ideas on how to improve civ3 that can't be build in the current engine, then yes, I'd wait another year or two.

	18-11-2003 20:49									#50
	Tired of ads?

I agree, and in fact your suggestion of a UN-type enhancement for CIV 4 sounds like the perfect basis for a new expansion of CIV 3, since it shouldn't be too complicated (easy for me to say). Perhaps improved diplomacy could be the core theme of the expansion. Maybe beef up espionage aspects as well.

If anyone from Firaxis is reading this, I would be curious what YOU guys are thinking about as next steps...

	18-11-2003 21:53									#51
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If anyone from Firaxis is reading this, he/she won't tell a word, that I'm sure of

	18-11-2003 22:00									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Good point.

	18-11-2003 23:19									#53
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The subject of exchange brings up the very reason I did wait and not participate and kept to playing CIVII. Is this a Civilization Diplomacy Game or a Civilization War Game? Personally, I care not nor use much all these new trade, diplomacy with espionage intrigue. I make scenarios with so many resources (x20) that I and everyone else (AI’s) will have everything straight away. I am glad the barbarians were not outright nixed; it is the battle engine that I am mostly impressed with and large maps, large armies and hundreds upon hundreds of cities that can be built. Anyway, this game is many things at once, where it goes who knows. Keep enhancing ‘the Game Editor’ and who cares. We each will design our own. However, give me back the ‘cheat mode’, ‘events’, ‘movies’ and I would like to build a fantastically elaborate Palace. Many Thanks! Oh and ZOOM.
See you guys were a little asleep on your watch. [smiles].

Sincerely,
Antrine

	19-11-2003 01:33									#54
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm I personally like the incremental approach, but there comes a point in any software project where the original design gets in the way of new ideas. It can get to the point where it is easier to start over than to try to jam something in.

IMO I am VERY, VERY happy with C3C, so I don't even care to speculate on whether or not vanilla should have been this or should have been that. I agree with your assessment, Warp.

With that being said, I think that Civ IV would have to be initiated to get some of the major overhauls that I have been crying for... e.g., updated diplomacy/UN, updated trade model, etc. It'll just be too much work to attempt to change these things and would be easier to start from scratch. Other Civ III code modules could probably be borrowed upon though, although I haven't seen the code to give an accurate assessment.

	19-11-2003 03:25									#55
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by TheArsenal Micromanagement and number crunching is a matter of play style. I have no time or patience for the level crunching that some players here do, and I probably send my workers into automation far earlier than them as well. Yet I still manage to enjoy the game a great deal and play more to both win and enjoy, than to work the internal mechanization of the game to maximize a win.

I supposed you are right, I played a game on a lower difficulty and had a bit more fun, since the computer wasn't power-gaming as much. I just wish they could of made the game challanging without giving the computer every advantage, or stoping the civs from actually behaving like countries and not players in a game. I guess I just don't like the atmosphere in it, really.

Give me a Paradox game over Civ3 anyday.