10-11-2003 23:05									#31
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Protect democracy -- are you alluding to our "white burden of little brown brothers" policy, or the policy of supporting anti-communist dictatorships?? Or are you talking about both policies?

both

they protect our democracy

Jon Miller

	10-11-2003 23:10									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka But Japher is correct. We can make these lists of any country. What's the point? It's clear bias.. anti-US trash people. They consider US bashing a hobby, which keeps them occupied because they can't afford to do anything else. Losers.

What's annoying is that they devalue the things that are valid criticisms.

	10-11-2003 23:16									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Question 11: Aside from Somalia, which is the only other country in the world to have refused to ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child? A: The United States of America. What does that have to do with anything? I would like to see the justifications for this, as I am sure they are good and worthy of more explination than this.

The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child would prohibit international adoptions without the specific consent of both biological parents. This would effectively halt adoptions from countires where children are abandoned e.g., China. The US is by far the largest destination for international adoptees. IIRC there are about 5000 adoptees each year from China alone. Those 5000 little girls are certainly happy the US did not sign this treaty.

PS: This is at least the third time I have responded to this uninformed bullshit. I'm getting tired of it.

	10-11-2003 23:18									#34
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Thanks Adam Smith, I thought there had to be a better reason than preventing us from executing minors.

	10-11-2003 23:24									#35
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it is also porrly written, and is not followed by a good portion of it's signies

we at the least follow it in spirit

Jon Miller

	10-11-2003 23:38									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Agent Orange for one.

Agent Orange was not a weapon, per se. It was not known at the time of it's early deployment to have long-term effects on humans exposed to it and was believed to be safe for short term direct exposure. It was intended as a defoliant to deny the enemy concealment, not to directly attack the enemy.

	10-11-2003 23:55									#37
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Is napalm considered a chemical weapon or a defoliant?

	11-11-2003 00:03									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Japher That is not a contradiction of ideals when talking to a patriot.

So, it's a normative statement? In that case it has little or nothing to do with reality (neither has the article, for the same reason).

	11-11-2003 02:34									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller both they protect our democracy Jon Miller

So we use racist ideology and puppet dictatorships to protect democracy.

But it's not like that brings up glaring, fundamental contradictions or paradoxes, right?

	11-11-2003 02:44									#40
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What it means is sometimes one has to pick the lesser of two evils.
Utopia only exists in some people's mind.

	11-11-2003 02:48									#41
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Utopia is unrealistic -- that's obvious.

But using the cliche "choose a lesser evil" is an overused justification to commit "legal" crimes against humanity in the name of "democracy."

What a hoot!!!!

	11-11-2003 02:57									#42
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MrFun, your sounding like Boris; war is murder and can never be justified.

While this is a resounding fact, the overused cliche must be used. In a democracy that recognizes that a(n) untopia is an unrealistic pipe dream you will always be faced with "the lesser of two evils" in order to create a "better" - not perfect - world.

	11-11-2003 05:19									#43
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Name one person under the age of 18 executed in the US in the past one hundred years. We always wait until AFTER their eighteenth birthday.

	11-11-2003 05:21									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Japher MrFun, your sounding like Boris; war is murder and can never be justified. While this is a resounding fact, the overused cliche must be used. In a democracy that recognizes that a(n) untopia is an unrealistic pipe dream you will always be faced with "the lesser of two evils" in order to create a "better" - not perfect - world.

So we can justify crimes against humanity through the dictatorships we support?

Maybe the better solution is to set up puppet democracies, and not puppet dictatorships.

	11-11-2003 06:49									#45
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand No matter if any or all is true, the only option to none of it happening is to turn to isolationism. Once again people show there's no trick to judging, after the fact.

Isolationism's a great idea - we could build a great big city with a wall around it called the Forbidden City and refuse to speak to or trade with other countries.

Then we could watch the empire collapse upon itself like a dying star after abruptly self-destructing from the inside through misleading propaganda and self-righteous leaders.

Then we could shoot at protesting college students in the middle of Times Square.

Anybody else see 28 Days Later? Great flick.

	11-11-2003 06:55									#46
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quote: Question 20: Which country refuses to fully pay its debts to the United Nations yet reserves its right to veto United Nations resolutions?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do we not pay the dues of many other nations, so that they can be UN members?

	11-11-2003 07:02									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Correct me if I'm wrong, but do we not pay the dues of many other nations, so that they can be UN members?

You are not incorrect.

	11-11-2003 07:02									#48
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A lot of this list is, well, bad (Like that pollution question ) but some of it does have a point.
However more to the point....The article head is "Is this the greatest democracy in the world?" and rejecting the ICC or Kyoto really has no bearing on "democracy"

	11-11-2003 07:21									#49
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I fail to see anything wrong with any of the actions the U.S. is responsible for in that article.


serious.

So we funded Osama bin Ladin. So what? Osama really isn't that bad of a guy.

	11-11-2003 07:41									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH What it says is: " most lethal terrorist bombing in modern Middle East history" Which is true.

Except for those bombings that have been more lethal.

	11-11-2003 08:03									#52
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Question 1: Which country was the primary "sponsor" - in terms of weapons, training and funding - of Osama Bin Laden and his fighters during the 1980s?
Answer: The United States of America.

This is complete bullsh!t, and I've repeatedly shot this idea to pieces on this forum. OBL came with his own money to Afghanistan. He didn't have fighters until much later in the game, and he never received U.S. money or training. Some of his fighters may have received some U.S. training, but the overall percentage of Afghans and Jihadists in that conflict who received U.S. training was very low. They didn't need to learn infantry tactics from us, just how to use radios and stingers, and the vast majority of groups didn't even get that. There is a Frontline that dwells almost entirely on the Afghan war against the USSR, with special emphasis on OBL and the CIA's role in the war. I suggest checking this out so we don't have to keep rehashing this point.

Question 2: Which country's spokesman saw "nothing objectionable" in the Taliban's seizure of power in Afghanistan in 1996?
A: The United States of America.

They brought the civil war to a close, which was a blessing for the country. What they did soon afterward was not a blessing, and we distanced ourselves from them. Note that we never supported their claims to be the rightful government of Afghanistan even when our relations with them were at their peak. A complete non-issue to anyone with a brain and a few years of life experience or an interest in history.

Question 10: Which country's illegal bombing of Libya in 1986 was described by the UN Legal Committee as a "classic case" of terrorism?
A: The United States of America.

Which country was caught red-handed bombing a discoteque in Germany in an attempt to kill as many U.S. soldiers as possible in 1986? Libya. That was an act of war, as was the U.S. response. How would such an attack be looked at today? No one would bat an eye. Boy asking and answering your own questions is fun! Even when I'm wrong I'm right!

Question 13: Which is the only G7 country to have refused to sign the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty, forbidding the use of landmines?
A: The United States of America.

What does the G7 have to do with this issue? Nothing at all, except that it doesn't cover China or Russia which is neat because they haven't signed on to the treaty either. I guess that by bringing the G7 into this the author can make the U.S. out to be all alone on this issue. Which country spends almost as much as the rest of the world combined to remove landmines from former war zones around the world? The United States. I won't bother rehashing the reasons why the U.S. doesn't want to give up its landmines, but there are very good reasons that the signatories wouldn't exclude in the final treaty, so we didn't sign.

	11-11-2003 08:21									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Name one person under the age of 18 executed in the US in the past one hundred years. We always wait until AFTER their eighteenth birthday.

Last, First, Age, Method, Date, State
GOOSBY LEWIS 14 HANGING APR 6 1900 GEORGIA
GOOSBY KING 16 HANGING APR 6 1900 GEORGIA
GREENE JAMES 17 HANGING MAR 20 1903 ARKANSAS
BROADNAX JOHN 16 HANGING MAY 22 1903 NORTH CAROLINA
JOHNSON WILLIE 17 HANGING JUN 16 1905 SOUTH CAROLINA
CARTER WILL 17 HANGING DEC 20 1905 NORTH CAROLINA
BATTAILE GABRIEL 16 HANGING JUN 8 1906 VIRGINIA
LEE WILLIAM 17 HANGING JUL 26 1906 MARYLAND
MATHIS ALLEN 16 HANGING JUL 31 1906 KENTUCKY
HIGH BUCK 15 HANGING MAY 29 1907 GEORGIA
YOUNG LEWIS 17 HANGING OCT 11 1907 LOUISIANA
SERGI ROSARIO 17 HANGING JUL 14 1908 PENNSYLVANIA
GREEN WINSTON 17 ELECTROCUTION OCT 30 1908 VIRGINIA
CHRISTIAN AURELIUS 17 ELECTROCUTION MAR 22 1909 VIRGINIA
MARCAVICH STANLEY 17 HANGING NOV 18 1909 PENNSYLVANIA
HANCHETT IRVING 15 HANGING MAY 6 1910 FLORIDA
POE HARRY 17 HANGING SEP 2 1910 ARKANSAS
ECCLES JOHN 17 ELECTROCUTION NOV 11 1910 VIRGINIA
SITLINGTON HARRY 17 ELECTROCUTION DEC 16 1910 VIRGINIA
CHRISTIAN VIRGINIA 17 ELECTROCUTION AUG 16 1912 VIRGINIA
TEMPLES LEO 17 HANGING DEC 19 1912 TENNESSEE
WILLIAMS SILAS 17 ELECTROCUTION MAR 21 1913 KENTUCKY
CANTRELL BARTOW 17 HANGING JUL 31 1914 GEORGIA
RUGGIERRI STEFANO 17 MURDER ELECTROCUTION DEC 22 1914 NEW JERSEY
SPARKS RICHARD 16 ELECTROCUTION JAN 5 1915 NEW JERSEY
SANCHEZ FEDERICO 15 HANGING MAR 3 1915 TEXAS
PERSONS JOE 14 HANGING SEP 24 1915 GEORGIA
ELLIS PERCY 16 ELECTROCUTION MAR 15 1916 VIRGINIA
KITCHENS ROBERT 16 HANGING JUN 2 1916 GEORGIA
SUTTON HARRIS 16 HANGING JAN 12 1917 GEORGIA
BAILEY TOLSON 17 ELECTROCUTION JUL 2 1918 VIRGINIA
FLORES JOSE 17 HANGING JUL 21 1921 TEXAS
BURNETTE MCIVER 16 ELECTROCUTION OCT 12 1922 NORTH CAROLINA
JOHNSON THOMAS 16 ELECTROCUTION FEB 2 1923 SOUTH CAROLINA
LEWIS FRITZ 17 ELECTROCUTION SEP 12 1924 VIRGINIA
HALE KENNETH 17 ELECTROCUTION JAN 5 1925 NORTH CAROLINA
WILLIAMS PRINGLE 17 ELECTROCUTION OCT 8 1926 GEORGIA
DIXON LONNIE 17 ELECTROCUTION JUN 24 1927 ARKANSAS
HEWITT FLOYD 17 ELECTROCUTION JAN 6 1928 OHIO
JARMAN SILAS 17 ELECTROCUTION MAY 24 1929 TEXAS
WILLEY FREDDIE 17 ELECTROCUTION JUN 28 1929 NORTH CAROLINA
BALLARD J. W. 17 ELECTROCUTION DEC 11 1931 NORTH CAROLINA
MARCH EDDIE 16 ELECTROCUTION FEB 9 1932 GEORGIA
DUBUC WALTER 17 HANGING APR 15 1932 WASHINGTON
EDWARDS JOHN 17 ELECTROCUTION JUL 6 1934 NORTH CAROLINA
DODSON CHARLIE 17 ELECTROCUTION JAN 21 1935 GEORGIA
HASTY MONROE 17 ELECTROCUTION SEP 16 1935 FLORIDA
ASHLEY ROBERT 17 ELECTROCUTION JUN 26 1936 SOUTH CAROLINA
PHILLIPS JOE 17 HANGING JAN 20 1937 MISSISSIPPI
OWENS GEORGE 17 HANGING JAN 20 1937 MISSISSIPPI
HINDS ROBERT 17 ELECTROCUTION JUL 23 1937 FLORIDA
MCNEILL LARRY 17 ASPHYXIATION-GAS AUG 13 1937 NORTH CAROLINA
WHITFIELD WILLIE 17 ELECTROCUTION AUG 19 1938 ALABAMA
JEFFERSON L. J. 17 ASPHYXIATION-GAS SEP 23 1938 NORTH CAROLINA
BRYANT NATHANIEL 17 ASPHYXIATION-GAS FEB 16 1940 NORTH CAROLINA
CLAY WILLIE 16 ELECTROCUTION DEC 29 1941 FLORIDA
POWELL EDWARD 16 ELECTROCUTION DEC 29 1941 FLORIDA
WALKER NATHANIEL 17 ELECTROCUTION DEC 29 1941 FLORIDA
SOTO JOHN 17 ASPHYXIATION-GAS MAR 20 1942 OREGON
HARRIS OTIS 17 ASPHYXIATION-GAS OCT 30 1942 NORTH CAROLINA
SEXTON BURNETT 17 ELECTROCUTION JAN 15 1943 KENTUCKY
FRANKLIN BERNICE 17 ELECTROCUTION MAY 28 1943 GEORGIA
GRAY WILLIAM 17 ELECTROCUTION JUN 25 1943 KENTUCKY
HAIGHT EDWARD 17 ELECTROCUTION JUL 8 1943 NEW YORK
SEXTON CHARLIE 16 ELECTROCUTION AUG 20 1943 GEORGIA
ELLISON S 17 ELECTROCUTION DEC 11 1943 GEORGIA
HAND LOUIS 17 ELECTROCUTION JAN 14 1944 OHIO
NEWSOM JAMES JR 17 ELECTROCUTION MAR 24 1944 MISSISSIPPI
STINNEY GEORGE 14 ELECTROCUTION JUN 16 1944 SOUTH CAROLINA
WILLIAMS DAVID 17 ELECTROCUTION JUL 9 1944 TEXAS
LOVELESS FLOYD 17 ASPHYXIATION-GAS SEP 29 1944 NEVADA
DAVIS JAMES 16 ELECTROCUTION OCT 9 1944 FLORIDA
FOX CARL 17 ELECTROCUTION APR 6 1945 KENTUCKY
JOHNSON ERNEST 17 ELECTROCUTION JAN 25 1946 ALABAMA
JONES ARTHUR 16 ELECTROCUTION MAR 22 1946 KENTUCKY
ALLEN LEE 16 ELECTROCUTION NOV 15 1946 GEORGIA
STEVENSON WILLIE 17 ELECTROCUTION NOV 22 1946 GEORGIA
FRANCIS WILLIE 17 ELECTROCUTION MAY 9 1947 LOUISIANA
REDDICK HERBERT 17 ELECTROCUTION JUN 30 1947 GEORGIA
LEWIS JAMES 16 ELECTROCUTION JUL 23 1947 MISSISSIPPI
TRUDELL CHARLES 17 ELECTROCUTION JUL 23 1947 MISSISSIPPI
STEWART LACY 17 ELECTROCUTION OCT 25 1948 FLORIDA
JONES JOHN JR 17 ELECTROCUTION SEP 12 1949 GEORGIA
PULLIAM JOHN 17 ELECTROCUTION MAY 25 1950 MISSISSIPPI
JACKSON WILLIE 17 ELECTROCUTION JUN 15 1954 GEORGIA
JONES JOE 17 ELECTROCUTION NOV 19 1954 GEORGIA
ROYE NORMAN 17 ELECTROCUTION JAN 19 1956 NEW YORK
SHOCKEY LEONARD 17 ASPHYXIATION-GAS APR 10 1959 MARYLAND

In 1988 a ruling in the Supreme Court “prohibits the death penalty for juvenile offenders whose crimes were committed before they were 16”.

	11-11-2003 09:22									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I fail to see anything wrong with any of the actions the U.S. is responsible for in that article. serious. So we funded Osama bin Ladin. So what? Osama really isn't that bad of a guy.

sig material -- any takers??

	13-11-2003 09:17									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Japher MrFun, your sounding like Boris; war is murder and can never be justified.

When did I ever say such a thing?

Slander.

	13-11-2003 09:22									#56
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Welcome to the OT, Boris

	13-11-2003 10:21									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner And the UN stuff. We are responsible for over 60% of all costs associated with the UN

That's total and utter crap.

2002 Share of contribution to UN budget and share of world GDP (both converted at exchange rates):


United States: 22% 32%
European Union: 35% 27%
Japan: 20% 12%

source:
UN

	13-11-2003 10:50									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov When did I ever say such a thing? Slander.

Hey -- no just dropping in here unannounced without being accountable for your absence.

	13-11-2003 11:45									#59
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They actually compile stats at the UN on organizations that don't sit on any organizations?