10-11-2003 20:00									#1
	Cruisers and naval improvements Remove this text

I'm glad to see the return of pre-aegis cruisers in C3C. Best of all they look cool I look at them as a "poor man's" battleship There are times when I need a ship out a few turns earlier and I can't afford to pay for rush build for a battleship. My option in vanilla CIV3 was only the destroyer, which was the backbone of my modern fleets. Now cruisers can be my other option if I want to wait a few more turns for additional firepower and range. A unit I missed from CIV2 that has now returned

The adjusted speed of naval units make a difference. I remember I changed some of that in the editor a while back because I always thought a destroyer should be faster then a battleship. The cruiser faster then the battleship is right too and makes sense. So these are some good changes here that give players more options

	11-11-2003 00:06									#2
	Suffering from ads?

The changes to movement rates are very good. I'm actually going to play my first epic game without changing anything in the editor. For a large map, which is what I usually play, the naval rates are acceptable but I think I'm still going to have to enhance aircraft ranges. I usually give the stealth bomber a 20-22 range to represent the superplane that it is.

I'm very glad to see the entry of the cruiser, the AIGIS comes so late and the destroyer and BB weren't enough diversity. With 15 attack it compares with the BB and could sink one with a little bombardment help.

The other huge improvement is the stealth attack capability of submarines which is going to make protecting your transports much more difficult.

	11-11-2003 02:32									#3
	Support Apolyton

Does the cruiser have any anti air properties? Either the destroyer or the cruiser should be able to shoot down planes. Make it a long shot, but at least some chance.

	11-11-2003 02:38									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Cruiser has AA of 1, just like the Destroyer.

	11-11-2003 02:51									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by G'Kar The other huge improvement is the stealth attack capability of submarines which is going to make protecting your transports much more difficult.

Yes definitely. I learned this the hard way while playing the ww2 pacific scenario. An allied AI sub attacked a fleet of mine and sank one of my carriers. That carrier was loaded with 3 aircraft too I only had one destroyer escort with that carrier which was not enough. This destroyer was sank too on the same turn by allied aircraft. So I could not even counter attack that sub and it ended up getting away.

	11-11-2003 06:17									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

So does stealth work with the AI too? They don't instantly know where your Subs are without having a spotting unit around?

	11-11-2003 06:21									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Don't confuse Stealth, Stealth Attack, and Invisibility.

The AI pretends it doesn't know where your invisible units are without a spotter (mostly).

Stealth Attack (which subs have in addition to invisibility) allows a unit to pick which target it wants to attack from a stack.

	11-11-2003 06:32									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Awesome! Not only the answer I was hoping for but a whole new one too!

	11-11-2003 12:29									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I know I've seen the answer before, but is there any counter to Stealth Attack?

If not, it would seem on the surface to be pointless to even try to escort one's transports anymore if subs are known to be in the vicinity.

	11-11-2003 12:54									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Solomwi I know I've seen the answer before, but is there any counter to Stealth Attack? If not, it would seem on the surface to be pointless to even try to escort one's transports anymore if subs are known to be in the vicinity.

I'm not sure about a direct counter for stealth attack. I do know, your escort which is in the same location as the targeted ship will fire once at an attacking sub. Then the sub attacks the targeted ship. So if your escort hits the sub, it will be weaker and easier to sink by the targeted ship.

What I do is have my destroyers escort ahead of my carriers, actively searching for subs. Now, destroyers are fast and can hunt subs down before they have the opportunity to sink an important ship. I find about 3 destroyers are very good for escort. It all depends on how far I need to go and how big the sea/ocean area is. As I previously said, I only had one destroyer with that carrier which was a big mistake. I knew it was but I done it anyway because I did not want to wait for other destroyers to get there, and it cost me a loaded carrier.

	11-11-2003 18:23									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Certainly makes subs stronger eh. If you don't have units that can spot them you either have to accept heavy losses or search every tile of the ocean manually. I can imagine destroyers moving in phalanx formation to sweep for subs

	11-11-2003 20:50									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That's awesome! Thanks for the info about the naval changes.

Finally we can run naval operations similiar to real warfare. I especially like the destroyer screening strategy -- protect the capital ships! Subs are more useful now, which makes things more interesting.

to Breakaway as I understand from other posts that they had much to do with the naval improvements.

	11-11-2003 21:01									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The naval improvements are impressive...The major change this will have is that I will start to protect my coastline with Subs as well as Destroyers.