11-11-2003 15:39									#1
	C3C deletes PTW extras? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This was originally posted on Civfanatics, but it's disturbing enough that the word should be spread here.

Despite claims that C3C included PTW, it doesn't really include everything in PTW. Namely, the user-made files that came with PTW and the special units made by Firaxis (i.e. WWII units) are not in C3C.

This isn't so bad, I suppose, except that there is one really big problem for PTW users like me--not only does C3C not come with those extras, if you install it over an existing PTW, it will actually delete them. That's right--it will erase the special units and mods from your hard drive.

I'm hoping this is not true, but the posts at Civfanatics are pretty unambiguous:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=68332
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=68235

Now, someone has said it didn't delete their files, so I'm wondering what's up.

Firaxis: If true, this simply isn't acceptable. I shouldn't have to worry about an XP deleting those files from my HD. This would render my current PTW games inoperable, since I heavily use the special units and modded terrain sets. I'm hoping this was merely an oversight and an update will fix it.

If it's not the case, well then... never mind!

	11-11-2003 15:42									#2
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Ack that would be very annoying. I'm hoping Conquests arrives later so I'm going to have to investigate this.

	11-11-2003 16:14									#3
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I'm not into the whole mod thing, so it doesn't affect me.

As long as the AI is good, PTW can blow up and I'll be fine.

	11-11-2003 17:49									#4
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BreakAway games developed the Installshield scripts for Conquests.

We do not DELETE any PTW files from your disk.

However, unless you have the GOLD version of Civ 3, which is guaranteed to have Civ3 and PTW patched to the latest patch, we DO go ahead and reinstall PTW on your machine.

So if you had any mods that CHANGED ORIGINAL PTW FILES, those mods will be overwritten by the original files. The extra content (the user-made files that came with PTW and the special units made by Firaxis) will not be touched however.

You can see why we have to do it this way. Conquests depends on graphics and text files from both Civ3 and Play The World; we want to make sure you will have a working Conquests game after the install is complete.

	11-11-2003 18:17									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Gobi Bear BreakAway games developed the Installshield scripts for Conquests. We do not DELETE any PTW files from your disk. However, unless you have the GOLD version of Civ 3, which is guaranteed to have Civ3 and PTW patched to the latest patch, we DO go ahead and reinstall PTW on your machine. So if you had any mods that CHANGED ORIGINAL PTW FILES, those mods will be overwritten by the original files. The extra content (the user-made files that came with PTW and the special units made by Firaxis) will not be touched however. You can see why we have to do it this way. Conquests depends on graphics and text files from both Civ3 and Play The World; we want to make sure you will have a working Conquests game after the install is complete.

Thanks that is definately good to know. So I need to go check if the watercolor and snoopy terrain mods are still present but it sounds like they should be. I have the original (Infogrames) PTW patched to the latest.

	11-11-2003 20:06									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Gobi Bear BreakAway games developed the Installshield scripts for Conquests. We do not DELETE any PTW files from your disk. However, unless you have the GOLD version of Civ 3, which is guaranteed to have Civ3 and PTW patched to the latest patch, we DO go ahead and reinstall PTW on your machine. So if you had any mods that CHANGED ORIGINAL PTW FILES, those mods will be overwritten by the original files. The extra content (the user-made files that came with PTW and the special units made by Firaxis) will not be touched however. You can see why we have to do it this way. Conquests depends on graphics and text files from both Civ3 and Play The World; we want to make sure you will have a working Conquests game after the install is complete.

Thanks for the response. Any ideas on why the one poster found his special units had been deleted? Perhaps he's mistaken, but he made it sound like the special units that had originally come with PTW had been zilched.

	11-11-2003 20:16									#7
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If they are overwritten when installing C3C, that would leave the same effect as far as he is concerned.

	11-11-2003 20:20									#8
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quote: Originally posted by alva If they are overwritten when installing C3C, that would leave the same effect as far as he is concerned.

But we were just told C3C doesn't overwrite those units.

	11-11-2003 20:22									#9
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Hello, I'm the one who started the discussion at CIVFANATICS, here is a short view of what happened on my PCSS:
Meaning I installed COnquest on my PC and on my girlfriend's laptop, one installation was over the PTW 1.27, the other was from 0 installing first CIV3, then Conquest:

The installation on the PTW 1.27 DID NOT delete the extra units or terrain, PTW is still complete
The installation on the Laptop, meaning completely new install, DID NOT Install these files

CONCLUSION: Someone installing only CIV3 and COnquest will NOT have theses Extra units/graphics, in order to have them you have to buy PTW and install it before you install Conquest (Maybe also the patch 1.27 to be sure)

In hope this helps clarify it

	11-11-2003 20:30									#10
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Check the posts from kring on the Civfanatics pages, he's the one who claims C3C gutted his old PTW files.

	11-11-2003 20:34									#11
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I've read them, and I can see from experience that it didn't happen on my PC,... the only difference they might be is the patch version....
I also posted a link to this thread for him

	11-11-2003 20:38									#12
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quote: Gobi: So if you had any mods that CHANGED ORIGINAL PTW FILES, those mods will be overwritten by the original files.

If you have mods in the original folders, they will be gone, that's how I read it Boris.

	11-11-2003 20:54									#13
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: Gobi: So if you had any mods that CHANGED ORIGINAL PTW FILES, those mods will be overwritten by the original files. If you have mods in the original folders, they will be gone, that's how I read it Boris.

Read kring's posts in the first thread I linked:

quote: So far, the extras folder still has the sub folders for: European Terrain, Winter Terrain, WWII, and Prehistoric, but they are all now empty, except for any subfolders (but the subfolders only have subfolders or are empty themselves) they held. I don't have my other computer on currently so I can't compare the missing and non missing files. I will check out the differences later to see what I need to add back in. There are a few empty folders (10, including Snoopy and Warpstorm's terrain) and subfolders in the PtW/Scenarios folder.

He's saying C3C went and erased the Firaxis-made units and user-created ones that came with PTW when he installed it.

	11-11-2003 21:35									#14
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This is getting frustrating. I'm gonna have to check my rig and see what happened after C3C install.

	11-11-2003 21:37									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Gobi Bear BreakAway games developed the Installshield scripts for Conquests. We do not DELETE any PTW files from your disk. However, unless you have the GOLD version of Civ 3, which is guaranteed to have Civ3 and PTW patched to the latest patch, we DO go ahead and reinstall PTW on your machine. So if you had any mods that CHANGED ORIGINAL PTW FILES, those mods will be overwritten by the original files. The extra content (the user-made files that came with PTW and the special units made by Firaxis) will not be touched however. You can see why we have to do it this way. Conquests depends on graphics and text files from both Civ3 and Play The World; we want to make sure you will have a working Conquests game after the install is complete.

Gobi, whether it is intentional or not, C3C DOES delete PtW files. I have checked on two computers. Both had PtW installed before installing C3C. After installing C3C, the loss of files occurs. Neither computer had any modified PtW files. In fact, on one computer, I did a complete reinstall and every patch update (in order) of PtW before I installed C3C. I am not the only one that has experienced this effect.

On the one computer, I saved copies of the PtW folder from each patch. In comparing the current (post C3C) PtW folder, I have 285 MB vs the 1.27f PtW folder which has 485 MB used. The 1.27f folder was made immediately after patching to 1.27f and has no saved games or any other additional files in it.

I don't know why some people lost the PtW files and some people didn't.

FWIW, I completely uninstalled (including the C3C beta patches) the Beta version of C3C on both machines before installing C3C. On one I did a clean reinstall of PtW including the PtW patches.

I made no changes or deletions to PtW files on either computer.

	11-11-2003 22:15									#16
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I hope this is resolved soon, because it's frankly rather terrifying to think I might have those units deleted if I install C3C. I've spent a lot of time adding them into the game!

Of course, most of that time was spent updating the @#$%! .txt files and the editor, but still...

	11-11-2003 22:24									#17
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A safe workaround if you have the extra HD space is to do what I did with my second computer.

I made a copy of the PtW folder as Old PtW. Then, I installed C3C on that computer. This way, I can move the missing files from the Old PtW file into the regular PtW folder. Since I am on a LAN, I can also use this folder to copy into the other computer's PtW folder.

Another workaround would be to have a Goback program or restore point before you install C3C.

	11-11-2003 23:54									#18
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So if I go out and buy conquests (I dont have PTW), I might as well also get a copy of PTW? I haven't played civ in like a year and a half

	11-11-2003 23:58									#19
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No you don't need PTW (you do need Civ3 vanilla).........some people are just worried about the possibility that when PTW is patched up to the most recent version by the C3C installer some modified files may disappear.

	12-11-2003 00:01									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike No you don't need PTW (you do need Civ3 vanilla).........some people are just worried about the possibility that when PTW is patched up to the most recent version by the C3C installer some modified files may disappear.

I'm not as concerned about any custom/modified files as much as I am about the extra unit graphics/animations and terrains that came with PtW, and which many mods take advantage of. I very much hope that the .../Civ3PTW/extras/ folder is not deleted when installing conquests...anyone else who had a normal PtW install care to check to see if everything is still in those folders after installing conquests?

	12-11-2003 00:06									#21
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quote: Originally posted by RobC I very much hope that the .../Civ3PTW/extras/ folder is not deleted when installing conquests...anyone else who had a normal PtW install care to check to see if everything is still in those folders after installing conquests?

Windows XP Home edition with prior PTW installation fully patched. My extras folders remain untouched.

Catt

	12-11-2003 01:08									#22
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Looks my extras folder is OK too, not that I ever use it.

	12-11-2003 02:31									#23
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Excellent info Gobi Bear! Thanks!

So long...

	14-11-2003 07:41									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Gobi Bear BreakAway games developed the Installshield scripts for Conquests. We do not DELETE any PTW files from your disk. However, unless you have the GOLD version of Civ 3, which is guaranteed to have Civ3 and PTW patched to the latest patch, we DO go ahead and reinstall PTW on your machine. So if you had any mods that CHANGED ORIGINAL PTW FILES, those mods will be overwritten by the original files. The extra content (the user-made files that came with PTW and the special units made by Firaxis) will not be touched however. You can see why we have to do it this way. Conquests depends on graphics and text files from both Civ3 and Play The World; we want to make sure you will have a working Conquests game after the install is complete.

Sorry Gobi but that is just not true. Just got C3C and the Dinos from PTW are now gone.

To clarify - I did uninstall Civ3 and PTW, the reinstalled Civ3 and C3C. I no longer have my PTW CD, and I miss my dinos.

	14-11-2003 08:04									#25
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Give me your mail and I'll send them to you if you want.

( better even send me a mail first in case I forget, the button next to "profile" should do )

	14-11-2003 08:27									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Amesjustin To clarify - I did uninstall Civ3 and PTW, the reinstalled Civ3 and C3C. I no longer have my PTW CD, and I miss my dinos.

The point is that the C3C version of PTW does NOT include the extra stuff. By deleting your previous copy of PTW and installing just Civ3 and C3C clean you got PTW in the process, just not any of the extras since the C3C doesn't install them anyway. There is nothing abmormal about this.

Of course, why it deletes stuff on others' computers is still a mystery.

	14-11-2003 20:44									#27
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I'm lost here. I want to continue to use the watercolor terrains. When I install C3C they will still be there provided I do nothing to the currently installed PtW?
Sorry for the dumb question but I'm somewhat tecnophobic and you're all over my head.

	14-11-2003 20:51									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Rob_S I'm lost here. I want to continue to use the watercolor terrains. When I install C3C they will still be there provided I do nothing to the currently installed PtW? Sorry for the dumb question but I'm somewhat tecnophobic and you're all over my head.

I'm kind of lost too. The only reason why I want to know for sure is because of watercolor and snoopy terrains.

	14-11-2003 21:35									#29
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Surely the relevant data is small enough for you to just copy it before installing C3C. Then, put it back after the install.

	14-11-2003 22:47									#30
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You might have trouble loading the modified terrain since they do not have the graphics for the new terrain and thus might end up a bit screwed up in-game. You should try finding the C3C versions of those graphic mods.