12-11-2003 00:37									#31
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Probably rape.

quote: imagine being kept barley alive for 2 years while some nut case does you over in the worst way.

My point exaclty.

	12-11-2003 00:39									#32
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I'm tempted to vote for the banana option.

Stealing looks a bit ridiculous on the list. Otherwise, I think that psychical damage often is underrated compared to physical damage. There are things worse than murder one can do to a person - sometimes "even" mobbing gets that bad.

	12-11-2003 00:55									#33
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I used to think rape. But rape only lasts a few minutes.

Torture can last a lifetime and because of that- it is worse than death.

	12-11-2003 00:59									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Some rapes last for over a month. No, I haven't. Is it good?

well if rape happens repeatedly, then we are talking about other crimes.

In fact repeated rapes could be a form of torture. And would fall under the torture crime.

Of course torture isn't a real crime is it? so I'm not sure it belongs on this poll.


But really. Not to be insensitive and all. But rape can be dealt with mentally. Eventually a woman will "zone out" during the rape and not even know it's happening to her. But with torture- you can't escape the massive pain until you go completely insane.

pain's invention- madness

	12-11-2003 01:02									#35
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quote: Originally posted by JellyBean It depends what you mean by worst. Murder has the largest negative effect on society, but torture implies a criminal further outside what I would consider acceptable moral standards than any of the others.

I disagree. In fact I don't think Murder has that negative effect on society.

Child abuse has more. Because you are ****ing up that child for life. And in most cases- you are creating a person who will abuse people themselves. And the cycle goes on and on. By murdering someone you aren't creating someone who will go on to murder others. But by abusing them as a child, there is a good chance you will create someone who will abuse children when they grow up. Or at the very least, create a mentally unstalbe unproductive person in society.

	12-11-2003 01:02									#36
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quote: But rape can be dealt with mentally

Yes. Of course

	12-11-2003 01:09									#37
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there have been cases where that has happened.

Hell, some women can be raped and lead a normal life. But others cannot.

	12-11-2003 01:14									#38
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Could you be raped and live a normal life? I mean if a big 6'5" foot guy keeps you tied up and sticks it in your pooper for a month...would you lead a normal life after that...or would you become paranoid?


Spec.

	12-11-2003 01:18									#39
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I'd rather be raped then have my nipples ripped off with a pair of pliars, my balls electrocuted and oil of vitriol thrown over my face

	12-11-2003 01:18									#40
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How can being forced to have sex be equivalent to having your life ended?

People who value human life should say murder.

	12-11-2003 01:20									#41
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quote: Could you be raped and live a normal life? I mean if a big 6'5" foot guy keeps you tied up and sticks it in your pooper for a month...would you lead a normal life after that...or would you become paranoid?

Well, sure it is terrible, but what your saying is that no victim of rape can ever live without becoming paranoid, implying that no victim of rape can live a life that is worth living for later - but I think some can (others unfortunately not) so there´s a chance.

	12-11-2003 01:25									#42
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My coment was for Dissident as to rape being able to be worked with mentaly. You can live a normal life after, but never completly normal....Imho.

Spec.

	12-11-2003 03:16									#43
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Torture. totaly unnessecery.

my concept of torture includes also rape and inprisonment.
jep, death penalty to all.

	12-11-2003 03:37									#44
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Nope, I'd vote to do the same to them.

You tortured someone for 2 days, then let me see how you feel if I stick a red hot baillonet in your ass for 2 days. There.

Spec.

	12-11-2003 04:35									#45
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I´m surprised by the poll results so far. it looks like two philosophies of life are bumping into each other.
the torture/rape voters may rate life as a neutrum. terminating a life can be a good thing, if life is full of pain and sadness.
on the other hand the murder voters consider life as valuable, no matter how painful it is.

I voted murder.

	12-11-2003 04:52									#46
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Probably torture, since it can encompass many of the other crimes, and go further too. Although it would depened on the situation and circumstances. Whatever you imagine to be your worst nightmare would count as torture, and therefore, make it the worst, IMHO. Some of the others can be bad enough to destroy someones life, but if they reached that stage, I would consider them a form of torture. It's a bit of a catch-all, hence an easy choice IMHO.

	12-11-2003 05:07									#47
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tickling is torture to me. I hate people tickling me. And I heard it once was used as a form of torture.


but is tickling a crime? No.

Of course I just blew my own argument out of the water . But it was too difficult defending torture as my choice anyways. Torture can encompass so many things, and really isn't a crime by itself. It includes other crimes.

	12-11-2003 05:46									#48
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Torture first and Murder second.

	12-11-2003 06:57									#49
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torture and child abuse (but I voted for rape as a specific form of torture)

Jon Miller

	12-11-2003 07:02									#50
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Pedophilia

	12-11-2003 07:03									#51
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What was the line from Pulp Fiction?

I think it was, "I'm gonna get a couple of brothers with pliers and a blow torches on you."

Damn, that's gotta be the worst. Rape and molestation is up there too though.

	12-11-2003 07:04									#52
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quote: Originally posted by oedo I´m surprised by the poll results so far. it looks like two philosophies of life are bumping into each other. the torture/rape voters may rate life as a neutrum. terminating a life can be a good thing, if life is full of pain and sadness. on the other hand the murder voters consider life as valuable, no matter how painful it is. I voted murder.

Very astute observation.

	12-11-2003 07:37									#53
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Rape-torture murder. There, that says it all.

How about torturing someone until they agree to murder someone else?

Consider also the case of Charles Manson, i.e., using drugs to brain wash stupid teenagers into multiple-rape torture murders. For icing on the cake, consider that the whole point of the murders was to attempt to inflame race hatred in the hopes of fomenting a race war.

	12-11-2003 09:00									#54
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Murder of course, all the other crimes at least leaves the victim alive. The physical and/or emotional trauma of rape or torture can ruin a person's life, but they have a role in that ruination. For example, we can ask Sen John McCain if he would rather the N Vietnamese killed him instead of torturing him and letting him survive the war. The victim of a crime has a choice once the crime has been committed, get over it or let the criminal continue victimizing them by letting the crime cause anguish.

I'm sure it's very hard to get over such a crime, but what other option is there? Go on with your life... Go on or let the crime be your downfall...

	12-11-2003 11:10									#55
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I think that life is always better (almost always better?)

I consider the possibility of an after life, when I put torture (rape and child abuse) as worse than murder

JOn Miller

	12-11-2003 11:23									#56
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If any of you knows a rape victim, as I do, then you'd realise how stupid answering rape is. Most would rather have been raped than be dead.

	12-11-2003 11:56									#57
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I know a number of rape victims

and I agree

but I think tat rape is terrible and is a form of torture

and also I looked at the votes first and thought that it needed some more

Jon Miller

	12-11-2003 13:06									#58
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a life time of torment is worse than a quick and painless death.

Torture and rape. both involve breaking a person, their spirit, and rendering them completely powerless. The psychological ramifications are terribly difficult if not impossible to overcome.

	12-11-2003 13:10									#59
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that's true

but I and most people would and do choose ot live

it's not that simple

it is just that I think, in general, that there is less suffering in murder than in torture

it is a truism that is unballanceable, life is always better

Jon Miller

	12-11-2003 13:10									#60
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well, I won't say unballanceable

but almost so, life is almost always better

let's say it that way

Jon Miller