12-11-2003 14:59									#1
	Hard Drive Failure. Enter the AD-FREE zone

My secondary hard drive seems to have died.

The electronics appear to be fully responsive (I managed to keep track of the diagnostics disk, and ran it), but it failed a SMART self test and got a fatal error on track 0.

Bah.

Anyone know a good data recovery service?

	12-11-2003 15:33									#2
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Track 0...isn't that a track that some virus(es, not ii) mess with to make a HD inoperable?

	12-11-2003 16:10									#3
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Yep -- but it can also do it all by its lonesome.

It means there's nothing I can do to recover the data, as it contained the information needed to access the rest of the drive.

	12-11-2003 16:14									#4
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Yes, track 0 is the favorite for many cybervandals. However, you need to check one other thing. Open your case and put your finger on top of the drive spindle, slightly off center on top of the drive, it's usually a circular raised area. Make sure other vibrations aren't tricking you. If you feel no vibration, you hard drive motor is dead. I suspect you wouldn't get the track 0 statement if this was the case, but I've had a hard drive post in the bios, and then be unable to read any date for that reason.

Hard drive recovery is quite expensive, usually starting at around $200 for a smallist drive, and running up to $500 plus. You may want to start a new post, I would suspect a good disk recovery suite could at least let you recover the digital data from your hard drive, you would just need to figure out what each file was (get a binary viewer). Start a new thread on best hard drive recovery hardware, or go to some of the hardware sites and ask on their forums. If you do get a solid lead, post it back here so I'll have it (just in case ).

	12-11-2003 16:45									#5
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he was asking for a good data recovery service...

	12-11-2003 17:15									#6
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Give it a kick, that will sort it...

	12-11-2003 17:19									#7
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It's really expensive, and he may not need it. From his post, and the fact it's here as opposed to a tech board, I suspect he doesn't know about some other options. If the damage is computer virus oriented, then he may be able to find a program that repairs it. I gave him the info so he can make the decision or maybe, if he's not too unlucky, save himself between $200 and $500. Don't know about you, that's a fair bit of money to me.

Simplified, for those who are incapable of paragraph based narrative directions.

A) he's already determined he has a problem, IDE interface board good.

B) determine it's not motor.

C) Go to tech site, check out data revory programs, and/or post a tech board, find program that can deal with bad sector (0) - which is the boot sector, why it's a problem. There is often a duplicate copy on the hard drive, and that can be accessed by good data recovery software. Plus, each track contains info as to the next track containing data that represents the file, which is the way other disk recovery software functions.

D) if unable (c), determine if have resources, several hundred dollars to pay for data recovery. If not, you're out of look. If have money, is the lost data worth it.

or

A) I've rich enought that $200 to $500 is casual money to me, so I'll just go to a data recovery service first.

The first post was an attempt to give him sufficient data that he could make an informed decision, while assuming since the post was at Apolyton he not a geek. If this was at Sharkey's extreme, I would NEVER have posted that - context - I'm on the low end of technical expertise on Sharkey's boards .

	12-11-2003 17:20									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

I don't recommend anybody opening an HDD, unless you write it off for good.

Sometimes freezing an HDD can make it work long enough for you to transfer the data off it. However, you have to be careful about ice forming on the case and electronics, and it's not reliable.

	12-11-2003 17:35									#9
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New development -- the drive letter and main file tree has mysteriously reappeared in explorer, though trying to read anything -- including subdirectories -- still gives a "cannot write, files may have been lost" message. This without restarting the computer.

I thought about overheating, so the I've left the cover off since first checking the cabling four hours ago -- I have a window open, and it's getting pretty cold in here.

	12-11-2003 17:36									#10
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shawn, I am interested in recovery software, if you (or anyone) knows a good title. Thanks.

	12-11-2003 17:43									#11
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it's been done: seal as much of your hd in a plastic bag as possible, and then stick it in a bucket of ice. then connect it, turn the box on, and transfer everything you can/want asap.

then shut down, disconnect.

also, don't shake your hard disk or hold it upside-down. all the data might come flying out, and you don't want that.

	12-11-2003 17:44									#12
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...especially if it lands in the water...you'll never get it all dry...

	12-11-2003 21:48									#13
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TMM,

There's no commercial software available for data recovery. You can look at DataRescue and people like that, but they do a specialised service, so they are not going to sell you their tools.

	13-11-2003 05:39									#14
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Try easyrecovery or any of the other 12 good data recovery softwares out there. We use ontrack's and usually get 98% or more of the data back.

If the hd is really dead you will need to get the right tools to get the job done. The cost is high usually $500 to $1000 dollars CND. down, $250 to $500 per 10 gigs after the first 10. WE do not give your money back if we get no data back. This has to be done in a sealed room or controlled environment.

I can do all that for you but you are in the States.

Email me for the link to the software..

	13-11-2003 11:30									#15
	Got spare money?

Urban Ranger, thanks for catching one poorly worded statement in my first post. I assumed (which was stupid of me, I even stated I know this is not a geek forum) everyone knows NEVER open hard drives at home. I meant open the computer case, so you can put you finger on top of the bearing seat that is part of the hard drive enclosure - it's usually a raised circular spot. When I say case, I always mean the computer case. Sorry if that was confusing, I'll specify next time. Black Ice, thanks for sharing the data recovery software tip.

	13-11-2003 12:18									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks, I'll download the easyrecovery trial and see if it can even locate the files -- if it can, I'll probably buy the $199 version.

Fortunately, the second drive was mainly being used to back up the first, and to store old data from years back. Unfortunately, it was my gaming disk as well, and held all my PTW modding work. THAT'S what I'll really miss if I can't get it back.

Because the second disk was so much larger (40 gigs vs. 10 gigs on the first), I had to pick and choose what files to have on both disks, and the games lost out.

I've decided to solve that by installing a pair of 80 gig drives instead -- one will archive the other regularly, and hopefully I won't have to worry about this again.

	13-11-2003 12:35									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

If you do that, you may want to consider a cheap IDE RAID card. Some newer mobos have them on board, but if you don't you should be able to find a card to do that. Put the pair in RAID 1 (mirroring), and you have an exact image on drive 2 as your drive 1.

	13-11-2003 12:37									#18
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That would be easier than doing it manually -- thanks, I'll look into it.

	13-11-2003 14:29									#19
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Urban Ranger, thanks for catching one poorly worded statement in my first post. I assumed (which was stupid of me, I even stated I know this is not a geek forum) everyone knows NEVER open hard drives at home.

What you mean to say is:

"Urban Ranger, stop being such a frigging pedantic git! Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know not to open the hard drive itself. Alas, you don't seem to be part of this concensus. So just get your head out of your arse and be a normal human being like the rest of us, OK?"

Is that more like it?

	13-11-2003 14:33									#20
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Just because you don't open your HDD doesn't mean others don't. Whuz

	13-11-2003 15:50									#21
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I use an app called getdataback it will restore files from formated and repartitioned drives perfectly (provided it hasn't been overwritten), and does a good job at drives which for some reason or other have been corrupted.

	14-11-2003 12:29									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

One piece of advice for RAID backups. You can still end up screwed. I had a power supply catastrophically fail, as in one of the capacitors BLEW UP (I found that out when I opened it). Well, I was using a RAID level 1 (disc mirroring) setup. Both ended up cooked. As in fried, as in really, really dead. Along with everything else except the memory (luckily almost everything was under warranty except a CD-drive and the motherboard/CPU.

If you have more than one computer, I now recommend keeping back-up type files in one mega-directory, and do weekly back-ups onto another machine, if you have that option. There are also programs out there that do that kind of mirroring between machines, but all of the ones I know of are corporate style programs and really pricey. A weekly or bi-weekly backup (plus a backup after any big project) should work fairly well.

	14-11-2003 12:59									#23
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If you want to do serious backups, do a nightly tape backup and have a rotation of at least 7 days.

	15-11-2003 13:31									#24
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Actually, tapes are becoming old hat and are actually falling by the wayside, even in corporate except for legacy applications and a few specialized cases. Hard drives have fallen so far in price RAID level 1 is actually much more cost effective for a home user (tape media is expensive, I used to use a SCSI TRAVAN3 unit, and tapes ran around $20 for o3.2 gigabytes (I still have the drive, I haven't used it in years). Do a weekly backup onto a CD-R or RW (which I didn't do, STOOPID), that gives you a much cheaper alternative (in case of a malignant worm or virus). I believe there are some programs that will do incremental backups, so you only backup the changes since you last one, important if you have several gigabytes of data. Check the Seagate site, they used to have a backup program that was decent, though I don't remember if it had an incremental backup feature. Also Cnet and ZDnet might have some lowcast shareware programs available for download.

	15-11-2003 14:02									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Tapes have at least 40GB capacity these days, much more than CD-R or even DVD. Only an optical disk can match it.

	16-11-2003 13:34									#26
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Costs aren't worth it. Raid 1 your primary machine, do a weekly backup onto a similiar sized hard drive on your network once a week. Only problem is worm vulnerability, and you just need to be careful (I've only gotten nailed once in - well, let's just say I predate windows ).

I only got nailed by staying on Napster using dial-up, but staying online for over 20 hours without a firewall and got hacked it may have been the same guy who hacked microsoft (altered the notepad.exe, interesting little bugger). I got to talk to the FBI folks in Houston handling the case! Everything was backed up, my only loss was time, so they weren't interested. When I reported it to my local FBI office, I was horrified. He wanted me to type in this run command. I had to explain that was for his anti-virus package, I was using someone elses, so I wouldn't have the .exe on my computer. It took five minutes to explain. Scary.

Use a SAN device for small businesses, often a attached RAID5 device, with it's own firewall. Automatic and up-to-the minute updates. Once you are talking tapes, or optical discs, you are talking small IT departments or larger outsourcing-type companies. Even then, SAN appliances have growing popularity.

	16-11-2003 13:52									#27
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I bought my two 80 gigs for a little less than $170, including tax.

	17-11-2003 01:51									#28
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Bear in mind people that RAID 1 ONLY protects against hardware failure. If a moron or a virus overwrites all your files, you are STILL ****ed.

	17-11-2003 03:24									#29
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I am surprised no-one has said this already, but never-mind:

"So who is this 'General Failure' guy and why is he reading my hard drive?"

	17-11-2003 03:51									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh I am surprised no-one has said this already, but never-mind: "So who is this 'General Failure' guy and why is he reading my hard drive?"

...and why doesn't he just delegate the job to Major Malfunction?