12-11-2003 19:12									#1
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why are physicist so guilty?

I mean yah, atom bombs are pretty big weapons and do their job well on the whole distruction thing

but a lot of physicists seem to feel personally responsible for thme or something

I mean, chemical and biological weapons can be as bad or worse

but we don't see (or at least I don't) that as a big problem for chemists and biologists

while for physicists there is always talks going on about nuclear weapons

and most physicists are very vocally against them

why is there this assymmetry?

or do I just not hang arround enough biologists

Jon Miller

	12-11-2003 19:16									#2
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Do people give physicists a hard time about atom bombs by phoning them on their cellphone? Posting about it on the internet? Whilst sitting on the bus or train on the way home from work? Late at night in their warm well lit home? etc.

	12-11-2003 19:24									#3
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hmmm....if you build a weapon of mass destruction, are you guilty? Let me ask George Bush if you are for or against us.

	12-11-2003 19:25									#4
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I don't know

yet

all I know is that physicists seem to care disapportionally more about the consequences of the atom bomb

when most of us aren't responsible for it, and those that were were just doing their jobs (like so many chemists, biologists, engineers, ect)

it is not like they did anything horrendous, they just created a weapon

Jon Miller

	12-11-2003 19:26									#5
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quote: hmmm....if you build a weapon of mass destruction, are you guilty? Let me ask George Bush if you are for or against us.

I think hes asking more why are the ones who didnt help make it feeling guilty for something they didnt do.

	13-11-2003 00:49									#6
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His name momentarily escapes me, but it was one sole scientist who invented CFC's and also had the bright idea of putting lead in petrol. That's quite a record.

	13-11-2003 01:06									#7
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I still believe that the atomic bomb actually helped preserve peace. It was the deterrent during the Cold War. Otherwise, I think, a war between USSR and the USA might have occured.

	13-11-2003 01:13									#8
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It reminds me some thinking I've been doing lately, about what scientific field has helped humanity the most in the 20th century. The answer is: all of them. Chemistry has built the world of today, but we owe much of it to the physicists, that have developed many of the underlying theories. Mathematicians were the ones to lay the foundation to all of it altogether, by work they've done a lot of time ago.

	13-11-2003 01:19									#9
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physics is and has always been at the forfront of some areas of mathematics (currently it is string theory)

JM

	13-11-2003 01:32									#10
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Yeah, but mathematics is always in front. The most recent maths developments still aren't being used practically, and that is always the case.

	13-11-2003 01:37									#11
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yes, but chemists are the ones that usually bring that to everyday life. us and the engineers.

	13-11-2003 01:42									#12
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no

physics sometimes invents mathematics

and mathematics is not a science unless one uses the term lightly

don't get me wrong, I give all respect to mathematics

but it is not a science

JOn Miller

	13-11-2003 01:50									#13
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genetics is a crime, so is extreme psychology. Both for similar reasons. Genetisists refuese to beleive we are capable of developing on our own and insist everything is defined by genes. Therefore you could be made redundant as a human being before you are even born.

Psychologists because they go the other way to the extent that every thing you even wisper to a child will somehow ruin him etc tec. Psychologists are just about acceptable though, genetisists need to be shot

	13-11-2003 02:27									#14
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I have never expirienced anyone blame physicists in general for nuclear bombs.

Why should all physicists feel responsible for Nuc. weapons?

	13-11-2003 02:29									#15
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Mathematics is certainly a science in the broad sense of "systematic and formulated knowledge", but most people use "science" to refer only to the natural sciences. Since mathematics provides the language in which the natural sciences aspire to describe and analyse the universe, there is a natural link between mathematics and the natural sciences.

Quote from: http://euclid.trentu.ca/math/sb/misc/mathsci.html

	13-11-2003 02:33									#16
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I do have a degree in mathematics

but it is not a science

there is no experiment

no data

it is a language

Jon Miller

	13-11-2003 03:43									#17
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You can do all the science you like, but without art, life itself has no meaning.

	13-11-2003 03:47									#18
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quote: Genetisists refuese to beleive we are capable of developing on our own and insist everything is defined by genes.

Almost all geneticists realize that phenotype is the result of genotype and environmental factors. All of my biology profs and those I did research with are aware of this obvious fact of biology.

	13-11-2003 04:44									#19
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quote: Mathematics is certainly a science in the broad sense of "systematic and formulated knowledge", but most people use "science" to refer only to the natural sciences.

In YOUR language perhaps. In greek "epistimi" uses exactly the first definition. Natural sciences, applied sciences, mathematics and humanities are all considered sciences in my language.

This is a very interesting topic. I'm a mechanical engineer. We have probably killed much more people that any other science since we have built all the weapons of the industrial age. And you don't need to think big. Colt, Winchester, Luger and Kalashnikov have probably each resulted into much more deaths than anybody else in this line of work.

As for guilt, IIRC the house of the Colt family is said to be haunted by the souls that lost their lives with those guns.

	13-11-2003 04:52									#20
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physical sciences, natural sciences

political science <-- There's the reall pisser!

	13-11-2003 05:40									#21
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man genetics is a crime,

quote: Originally posted by monolith94 You can do all the science you like, but without art, life itself has no meaning.

Life has no meaning.

	13-11-2003 06:19									#22
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Chem and Bio people get big fat salaries from big business and work in environments without unions, while physics people generally get comparably less money and are often heavily dependent upon state funding. Thus, physics folks are generally to the left of those of other sciences - including with regards to the use of nuclear weapons.

	13-11-2003 06:51									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp His name momentarily escapes me, but it was one sole scientist who invented CFC's and also had the bright idea of putting lead in petrol. That's quite a record.

Thomas Midgely