12-11-2003 23:25									#1
	Rise of Rome Conquest Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Has anyone attempted to play the Rise of Rome conquest as a civ other than the Romans? Best choice of civ? Strategies?

	12-11-2003 23:36									#2
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Yes. I just started as Rome at Sid level. WIll keep you posted.

	13-11-2003 02:19									#3
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try to get the scythians on your side if you are greek or persian, they can be a pain.

I would recommend trying to enlist all of the minors-scythians, goths, celts (egypt) against your enemy.

I really think that this scenario should have been the 8 city elimination rather than fall of rome-its a real pain to take out the carthage spanish holding for instance....

are persia and greece at locked war?

	13-11-2003 05:53									#4
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I think that the scenerio is probably easyist played as the Romans due to Legions building roads, with Carthagians second.

It's much tougher to win as the other two (probably requires that Rome and Catharge stale-mate)

Additions: Greece is probably the hardest civ that your allowed to play to win with.

If Persia wasn't in a locked war with Greece, they might be able to just concentrate on rapid development and try to reach the pop needed peacefully given how much territory they start with.

Last edited by joncnunn on 14-11-2003 at 05:27

	13-11-2003 08:05									#5
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Are the Celts considered playable, or AI-only? (I thought I had heard they were AI only).

	13-11-2003 08:12									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV Are the Celts considered playable, or AI-only? (I thought I had heard they were AI only).

ai only

too bad, would be interesting.

what I would like to play as are the scythians. They've kicked a lot of butt in my current game, at one point taking a nice chunk below the caucusus (???) mountiains including a persian wonder city! now they are retreating, but still,was cool for a while.they have a keshik style 3/1/2 horse.

	13-11-2003 18:49									#7
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I guess I might try and edit Rise of Rome after I finish with my ideas for Mesopotamia.

	14-11-2003 05:33									#8
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First on the list: relocate the starting workers for everybody out of the capital so that human Rome doesn't buy them all on turn 1, which is a no-brainer human tactic.

And hopefully the AI isn't locked into building what they start with on turn 1. What I saw my Roman empire building and their work force allocations as made zero sense to me, but at least I could change them to more useful items like Legionaries, Harbors for Vetran Galleys and making Iron adviable on Silicy, and a Temple in Rome.

	14-11-2003 07:01									#9
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You could just not do that, joncnun


Seriously, it might be better to remove temptation.

	14-11-2003 09:15									#10
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I played Rise of Rome as Persia and won on regent in about 80 turns. It was great. The travel time to the Greek front was slow but I conquered them and Egypt.

	14-11-2003 11:45									#11
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No such luck with me got thrashed but I forgot Legions colud make roads. It should have been like Shegnoku, where you upgrade units like the Diaymo.... dang. Meanig, that legions can upgrade with a city with barracks

	15-11-2003 23:09									#12
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Forgeting to build roads with Legonaries should result in being thrashed.

The other thing that should get the Romans thrashed is trying to take on both Greece and Carthage on turn 1.

I think winning as Persia would be much more challenging on Monarch than Regent.

	16-11-2003 04:04									#13
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I think that the scenerio is probably easyist played as the Romans due to Legions building roads, with Carthagians second. It's much tougher to win as the other two (probably requires that Rome and Catharge stale-mate) Additions: Greece is probably the hardest civ that your allowed to play to win with. If Persia wasn't in a locked war with Greece, they might be able to just concentrate on rapid development and try to reach the pop needed peacefully given how much territory they start with.

I'm playing as Greece now, and I have found that fighting Persia is quite easy. (Demigod level) As long as Rome doesn't quickly defeat Carthage and come after you, you can win by score. If you take and hold Asia Minor, then you're already the largest civ. If you take all of Persia, which isn't that difficult, you will win. A combined Greece+Persia empire is much much larger than a combined Rome+Carthage one.

Once I finish off Persia, I will have to make a decision. I will have to either help Carthage trim Rome so that it doesn't run over everybody with 6/5/1 Legionary IIIs, or I can take Egypt and Scythia and try for a quick win before Rome becomes too powerful.

Sorry if my thoughts are a little incoherent.

	18-11-2003 02:08									#14
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I'm playing Rome now. And I'm struggling. Well not really. I am kicking ass, but not fast enough.

I have 10% of the world area. Am I right that you need to satisfy both victory conditions? World area AND population?

I should be able to get population before time runs out, but I'm worried about world area. I'm passed the halfway point and I'm only at 10%.

I took over all of Carthage, and the Egyptians are almost gone.

Persia still has a higher score than me- even though they have less land area and population. So I've decided to ingore Greece (their hoplites proved very tough- there were unlimited numbers of them it seemed). And I need to attack persia to get their numbers down.

But the damn civ who starts where France is, just burned one of my cities to the ground I'm very pissed. And I want to take them over as well.

I'm trying to maintain some historical accuracy and make the map look like in the history books. But I just dont think I'll have enough time to take Greece.

	18-11-2003 07:41									#15
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deleted. I finally got it. see below.

Last edited by Dis on 18-11-2003 at 14:25

	18-11-2003 14:15									#16
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Well I finally beat this scenario from the game above. 14 hours!! A bit too long for my tastes.

For some reason those swordsmen are extra tough. The greek uu was also tough. Is there some code that says uu's get a bonus in combat?

Because when I faced the Persian heavy cavalry and spearmen, they went down to my legions like nothing. I blasted through the Persians. Even in heavy terrain such as hills.

But I struggled against the Celts and the Macedonians. :shrug: Go figure. But the Carthagians, Egyptians, and Persians were fairly easy. I can't figure it out.

And diplomacy is very important in this scenario as I found out nearly the hard way. You got to watch when you got your foot on the throat of another nation. They will make some deal to get one of your neighbors to attack you. This isn't uncommon in civ of course. I just didn't think the backwoods barbarians would pose any threat.

But I'm happy. I got the map to look fairly impressive. I wanted to do everything by conquest, but I did fill in some empy spots in Spain, N. Africa, and the Hungary, Yugoslavia region. I also put a couple of dangerous cities between the goths and celts in the check, Austria area. I felt like I could prevent them from attacking me. I got the entire coast of Africa looking red just like I remembered them from my school maps in my textbooks. But I wasn't able to take Greece out, or Istanbul. But I did get a pretty good chunk of Persia. I also had the island of crete, and the European areas I mentioned above.

Now to the next scenario. I want to beat them all and then go back and replay some of them as one of the weaker powers.

As for how I liked the scenario. It was fairly fun for a war scenario. But the map is a bit too big for my tastes, and far too many units to move around. And so many cities to manage.

Here are some of my unit totals.

10 workers (but many conquered ones), 3 archers, 17 spearmen, 94 garrisons, 14 galleys, 5 armies (I thought 3 was the limit? I was able to make more, so I did), 8 legionary (1 I think), 8 heavy cavalry, 9 fire catapults, 4 citizens, 5 legionary (2 I think), and 54 legionary III's.

Last edited by Dis on 18-11-2003 at 14:32

	19-11-2003 14:10									#17
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Forgeting to build roads with Legonaries should result in being thrashed. The other thing that should get the Romans thrashed is trying to take on both Greece and Carthage on turn 1.

Won by Domination as Rome on Monarch, and I think that my Legions roaded two tiles the entire game. I really didn't find it that useful an ability; those helpful Barbarians had roaded straight from their territory to my capital before the Conquest had even started.

I'll agree with your other tip, however. After taking Sicily, Corsica and Sardinia from the Carthaginians, I (ahistorically) eliminated the Celts before they could spread and captured a number of Goth cities. It was only when I realized just how (ahistorically) huge Persia was getting after it swallowed Egypt and what would have been Seleucid territory that I attacked the weakened Macdeonia in order to create a path to Byzantium for me (where I (not ahistorically) placed my FP). Immediately after their peace settlement, Macedonia was paid off by the Cathaginians to attack me, and it took *forever* to root out all of those hoplites in Greece proper, even with masses of third-tier Legions. If I didn't have The Republic, with it's amped-up Legions, it would have gone very badly for me. Even still, I might not have won in time if it hadn't been for a shockingly succesful campaign against Carthage in the southern coast of Spain. It was meant as a troop distraction but wound up with Rome owning all of Northwest Africa after Carthage rolled over, sending its troops in assault after assault on Sicily instead of defending its west.

The gpt bug really skews this Conquest, I think. The tech race was over by a third of the way through the allotted time, as well, which only made the amount of money floating around that much worse. I just got into the habit of allying with every single civ. If I didn't renew alliances against Carthage every twenty turns, Carthage would immediately sign alliances against me. Even those "backwoods barbarians" had so much money coming in that they could pay off every single other civ to join their wars. I'll probably try it again after the patch and see what a difference it makes.

	19-11-2003 14:23									#18
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I went through the pain of totally eliminating the carthagians and egyptians (even the cities they put out in the middle of the desert). I may have lost a little time on that. I was afraid I wouldn't win in time.

I guess I could have hit the celts and goths early. It would have been nice because they backstabbed me later. And I couldn't defeat their gallic swordsmen with superior Legionary 3's. But I made peace with them and bribed the to staty friendly.

I attacked Persia from the Egyptian cities (and lots of galley's ferrying troops from Italy to N. Africa). Persia was very easy to thrash. The game ended before I took over all their cities though. I achieved 20% land. I wasn't able to do anything to macedonia. Their UU was being a pain as well. The only uu I did well against was the numidian mercenary.

And did anyone else have a bug (?) of being able to build the numbidian mercenary in the captured N. African cities?

	19-11-2003 14:45									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident And did anyone else have a bug (?) of being able to build the numbidian mercenary in the captured N. African cities?

No Numidian Mercenaries for me in my occupied African territory. At least I never noticed them as an option.

I did have one build bug where a single former Persian city couldn't build anything requiring resources, even though it was connected to my trade path, and the proper strategic resources showed up in the city screen. Reload fixed it. Never known that to happen in any other Civ3 game I was playing.

	19-11-2003 19:16									#20
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quote: [SIZE=1] And did anyone else have a bug (?) of being able to build the numbidian mercenary in the captured N. African cities?

Why would this be a "bug"? As per the design, if a city has access to ivory it should be able to build Numid. Merc. BTW, the "Design Diary" for this scenario should be coming within a week ...or so.

	19-11-2003 21:47									#21
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I hope they list the unit stats, so I won't have to ask you guys the stats of every unit....

BTW, after I finish editing the Mesopotamian scenario, I think I'll try getting a shot of messing up Rome as well

So far, I'm not sure what I'll add, besides the Seleucids and a few unit changes - Every civ now gets a skirmishing unit (Rome has Velites. Carthage has Balearic Slingers. The Macedonians and Seleucids have Peltasts. Egypt, Persia, and the barbarians have Archers). I'm also adding Numidian Cavalry (available to everyone, but the resources are in Carthaginian territory), changing Numid Mercs to Libyan Spears (available only to Carthage), giving the Macedonians and Seleucids Elephants (imported from India, they can't build any more, though). And each Legion will have a different graphic.

I think that's about it, but I'd be welcome to ideas.

	19-11-2003 22:47									#22
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I'm playing this as Rome with Emperor difficulty. I am not quite halfway through the game and am not sure if I'll win or not. Persia has eliminated the Egyptians and I've eliminated the Celts. Just built the Heroic Epic in Rome and have 3 armies (2 legions, 1 heavy cav). I think I'll take out the Goths and kick Carthage out of Spain. Persia is leading with 9% of the territory and I'm at 7%. Currently allied with the Mongols and Greece.

Lots of fun.

	20-11-2003 04:47									#23
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quote: Currently allied with the Mongols and Greece

what do the Mongols have to do with early Rome?

	20-11-2003 04:50									#24
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My guess is that one of the civs uses the Mongol leaderhead (probably the Scythians).

	20-11-2003 05:08									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV My guess is that one of the civs uses the Mongol leaderhead (probably the Scythians).

Yes. It's a little disappointing. I really disliked looking at Lincoln's face in the Middle Ages Conquest, as well.

	20-11-2003 05:22									#26
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quote: Originally posted by jkelly Yes. It's a little disappointing. I really disliked looking at Lincoln's face in the Middle Ages Conquest, as well.

I found that one to be disturbing as well. Lincoln of Burgandy? Hmm....I would rather have had flags or something.

	20-11-2003 06:29									#27
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Yeah it is the Scythians. I couldn't remember their name just their face.

	20-11-2003 07:39									#28
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Maybe Firaxis enjoyed 1641?