13-11-2003 00:34									#1
	What is waste? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hi,

We all often throw out the terms "corruption" and "waste". There is a nice thread on everything you wanted to know about corruption... But what about waste.

What is waste?

Is it fixed to city size?

Does it change according to distance from Palace?

Does it change according to distance from FP?

And finally does it make sense? Is there more waste in small towns or in Wash DC?

Have fun with this question. C3C is making me go back and revisit the old "theories about this game"

-- PF

	13-11-2003 00:47									#2
	Re: What is waste? Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by planetfall Hi, We all often throw out the terms "corruption" and "waste". There is a nice thread on everything you wanted to know about corruption... But what about waste. What is waste?

Waste is the amount of a given resource lost due to corruption.

No it doesnt really make sense that a capital has zero corruption/waste.

I think city corruption should be reduced in proportion to how connected the city is to the rest of society.

Corruption should be tied to the amount of unhappy people in a city and whether or not a police station is in the city....

	13-11-2003 04:03									#3
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Actually, Waste is the effect of graft on Shield production, Corruption is on Commerce. The two are so closely related that one term, Corruption, is commonly used to apply to both. However, there are very small differences which are sometimes evident in a given city's Shield/Commerce totals.

	13-11-2003 04:14									#4
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Thanks,

Thought there had to be a simple answer. Techniques for dealing with these problems have definitely been discussed and cussed here a bit.

Thus,

Waste == lost shields
Corruption == lost gold

To be precise, then almost all complaints about Corruption are really about waste. I have not noticed very many concerned about lost gold, almost all are concerned about lost shields.

Interesting.

Is there such a thing as -- graft on science beakers? graft on food?

If not , why not. In RL teenagers have a reputation for food graph techniques.

-- PF

	13-11-2003 04:50									#5
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No such game mechanic for food.

Science Beakers, or Gold in Taxes, or Happy Faces are all a function of how you set the Commerce Slider. They all come from the Commerce, so yes they are effected by Corruption.

	13-11-2003 05:53									#6
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall To be precise, then almost all complaints about Corruption are really about waste. I have not noticed very many concerned about lost gold, almost all are concerned about lost shields.

To be a bit contrary, I tend to be more concerned about corruption, at least in the later game. Those cities on the outskirts can still be "productive" if the commerce level is significant enough to justify the upkeep costs of things like markets and libraries (and temples and aquaducts if needed). Waste in such cities can be dealt with through rush-buying or disbanding units in the city, and it can also be mitigated by WLTKD (though corruption cannot). My big issue when looking at the so-called "fringe cities" is: is the commerce corruption limited enough to make certain improvements worthwhile, or is it better to just irrigate everything and create a bunch of taxmen?

During the early game, pre-Forbidden Palace, it's true that I am much more concerned about waste since I know certain cities will eventually be strong and productive, but the crawl to get there is sometimes slowgoing before courthouses (and much later police stations) get built.

BTW, the "irrigate and specialize" is much better now in C3C.

Catt

	13-11-2003 06:07									#7
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Sometimes it is just unbearable to see 89 turns to complete the courthouse when you are a size 6 city already and haven't built the aqueduct.

It makes you consider using a leader to rush build...almost.

	13-11-2003 07:07									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Sometimes it is just unbearable to see 89 turns to complete the courthouse when you are a size 6 city already and haven't built the aqueduct. It makes you consider using a leader to rush build...almost.

Using a leader for that is no problem now. I just used one for a temple in an early city. Why, because I did not have enough cities for a second army and you can't rush wonders with them now.

So late in the game, if you get a leader, you probably don't need it anyway, so use it on that aqueduct.

	13-11-2003 07:45									#9
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I haven't been too lucky so far getting leaders... With wonder rushing, yes, they need to put to practical purposes.

	13-11-2003 08:11									#10
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Using a leader for that is no problem now. I just used one for a temple in an early city. Why, because I did not have enough cities for a second army and you can't rush wonders with them now.

What?! Does that include small wonders? That'd make building a new Palace or Forbidden Palace a bigger pain than it already is.

	13-11-2003 19:34									#11
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Small wonders (including the forbidden palace and the palace) can still be rushed by military GLs. It's just Great Wonders that are out.

I rushed Wall Street last night with a MGL.

-Arrian

	13-11-2003 21:13									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yeah I was too lazy to spell it out. I was only taking about great wonders. If I am talking about small wonders, then I say small wonders, sorry.

	16-11-2003 05:39									#13
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Back on topic (sort of...), I would like to see waste and corruption levels separated. This would allow more freedom for modders when making government-types. That way, you could have one government with high corruption/low waste, and another with low corruption/high waste.

And while I'm on the subject... there should be communal (corruption and waste) flags which are separate from the corruption and waste levels. This would allow two different gov't-types with communal corruption, but with corruption levels set differently.

	16-11-2003 08:01									#14
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Shield waste is the stupidest invention in a strategic game EVER

	17-11-2003 20:46									#15
	Re: What is waste? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by planetfall Hi, What is waste? -- PF

That's an easy one. It's the part of the body over top the navel and above the hip bone..