13-11-2003 08:26									#1
	My own version of Pirates! - The Privateer Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I heard Sid is still working on Pirates 2 (don't you like how I talk about Mr. Meier like I know him ), but I have been implementing "Pirates" in C3C with moderate success.

I have been trying to use the Privateer unit to attack and build big Pirate Navies but I have been hampered a bit.

First, is the enslave probablity also 1/3 like the Jav chucker? My numbers seem to be lower with the Privateer, but that may be just my limited number of opportunties and my skewed perception of my results on a sample size that is too small. Bottom line, my pirate navy is very slow in building large numbers and it's probably not the best strategy financially speaking in my current game.

Second, do you suffer any negative effects if the AI units see your Privateer hide under the skirt of a frigate? That's my strategy in keeping the Privateer safe and juking out to attack an unsuspecting ship. My strategy is to use several pirate ships together, the first few bombard and the last one goes for the destroy/enslave coup de grace. Then they run back and hide under the Frigate. Anyone else actively using this unit?

	13-11-2003 09:55									#2
	Re: My own version of Pirates! - The Privateer Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Second, do you suffer any negative effects if the AI units see your Privateer hide under the skirt of a frigate? That's my strategy in keeping the Privateer safe and juking out to attack an unsuspecting ship.

I don't recall the specifics, but Bamspeedy's AI Attitude tests showed that use of a privateer causes increasingly negative attitudes from the victims of your attacks -- I don't imagine that hiding under a frigate would change this, since the attitude hit comes regardless of the circumstances of the attack.

I'm not a big fan of drawing parallels between the game and actual history, but I've recently re-read a few history books focused on colonial America and the revolution, and the "privateer" concept is dealt with quite extensively. The "victims" of privateer attacks knew exactly what nation was encouraging and conducting the attacks (worsening attitudes), but since such attacks were under "pirate" flags instead of national flags, the acts were not flagrant acts of war justifying a sovereign declaration of war -- and many "privateers" would attack and then be protected by a national fleet - after the privateer lowered the priate flag and raised a national flag. Pretty similar to the game's implementation (but not by any means a justification for gameplay implementation - realism never should be, IMHO).

Catt

	13-11-2003 18:46									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I built a couple of privateers last night to try them out. The first one died attacking a caravel, in part because the escorting Dromon got in a shot first.

The second one nailed a lone Dromon and was promoted to elite & enslaved the Dromon, giving me a regular Privateer. I'm having trouble finding targets, though. I just keep sailing around the AI coastline, hoping to see a ship.

-Arrian

	13-11-2003 21:45									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Arrian or Catt:

Do either of you know the exact penalty for utilizing the Privateer? Catt references "increasingly negative attitudes" in the AI when you attack with the Privateer. I'm glad it's true, and it makes sense (both in Civ and real life).

It seems many of the senior posters on 'Poly can quantify these factors. I guess that's what I'm asking what is the formula or the specific "penalty" for using Privateers. Or perhaps, how can i "look under the hood" and find out myself?

I will admit to an attraction of pretending to be John Paul Jones! The American sea captain, not the bass player for Led Zeppelin

	13-11-2003 21:46									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Go to CivFanatics and do a search for Bamspeedy's attitude thread. I think it's discussed somewhere in that thread.

Honestly, I don't know what the exact penalty is. Typically, if I'm using privateers, I'm way ahead and don't care if the AI hates me.

-Arrian

	13-11-2003 21:48									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Cool...thanks Arrian! I'll do that.

	13-11-2003 22:24									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Shogun, if you like Piracy in C3C, why not take a look at my Age of Piracy mod (http://home.comcast.net/~rob.cheng/c3c/RobsCivMods.html)? Lots of Privateers, plus Bounty Hunter ships that give you 'stealth attack' so you can ignore escorting Frigates and just target the treasure-carrying Galleons.

	13-11-2003 22:31									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Do either of you know the exact penalty for utilizing the Privateer? Catt references "increasingly negative attitudes" in the AI when you attack with the Privateer. I'm glad it's true, and it makes sense (both in Civ and real life).

Check out Bamspeedy's AI Attitude thread -- the first post has all the detail (maybe more than you'd like ).

Catt