15-11-2003 19:24									#1
	To all those apologists for polluters... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Article

Another nail in the coffin of the "we didn't do it" argument. We need to stop walking on tippytoes and actually address global warming, all this "Oh, no it'll harm the economy, and my chance of re-election" or "its too much effort", or "it'll never happen", or "what difference can I make" needs to stop NOW!

The future habitability of this planet needs to be humanities top priority. I dont see it happening as long as we have separate nationstates, and populist democratic governments, but unless we do something, well, I'm sure we're all familiar with the consequences.

What measures have we, as individuals, taken to conserve power and be enviro-friendly?

	15-11-2003 19:56									#2
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Other than doing something violent and illegal, I think the best thing to do is to organise like-minded individuals in your area to form an environmental organisation, or become a chapter of a global one. Then do stuff through the organisation, like educating people and pressuring the government.

	15-11-2003 19:58									#3
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Indeed. I am working on an article, with the aim of "getting things in perspective", removing the veil of conventional "common sense" conservative pragmatism that, while often clouding our judgement, in this case is threatening the very existence of the human race!

	15-11-2003 20:05									#4
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Post it here when you are done

	15-11-2003 20:22									#5
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there is also the possibility of the 'Atlantic Conveyer' stopping in the next 20-50 years(no ones knows when exactly but it will and is already on its way to stopping), which could cause serious world wide damage to the main first world countries(USA+WesternEurope).

Still i'm half taking the view that it might be in the worlds best long term interest if it DID happen - with the kind of complete disregaurd for the world that the most powerful nations are showing in just about every area of policy, its might be a blessing in disguise.

Just make sure you live on high hills

	15-11-2003 20:49									#6
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If the atlantic conveyor stops, Britain will be returned to the ice age, we are on the same latitude as parts of Alaska/Siberia etc. I cant grow cannabis in tundra dammit!

child of Thor: You mean a self-imposed kick in the arse? If so, it'll work, either way the world will repair itself, the question is how much damage is done to us in the meantime.

	15-11-2003 21:25									#7
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well it would most likely be a non-deliberate kick up the ass, i'm mostly certain its not in the interest of our(UK) government to see this happen?
Still since the early days of greenpeace and others, it's become obvious that enviromental concerns are low down on many governments lists.
And so i'm almost resigned to the fact that when the big enviromental crunch comes, we will have acted too late to do much about it.
I have a gut feeling(based on a few more scientific methods ) that we may have passed or are just about passing that threshold as we write?
And yes i guess its a bit 'biblical' to think in terms of giant floods/great famines etc, but it would be kinda appropriate if it did end that way, what with all the 'christian' rhetoric the first world leaders seem to like to use
Still i may move to the south of france and live on high ground, just to be on the safe side

	15-11-2003 23:01									#8
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I've changed out all my incandescent lighting -- all of it -- for flourescent lighting.

I recycle my cardboard, aluminum, glass, and plastics.

I don't use much water.

	15-11-2003 23:06									#9
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Oh -- and I think the article's stretching it.

	15-11-2003 23:08									#10
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MM:

Why is the article stretching it?

	15-11-2003 23:17									#11
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A "one degree increase over the course of a century" becomes "a point eight degree increase over the course of thirty years".

That short a time period makes it a statictical blip -- add in the fact that we have had increased solar activity over the past few decades, and it becomes even more suspect.

Especially that bit about the land heating up faster being unnatural.

	15-11-2003 23:24									#12
	Re: To all those apologists for polluters... Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy What measures have we, as individuals, taken to conserve power and be enviro-friendly?

We as individuals could single-handedly reduce things like energy consumption and waste drastically overnight if we all worked together!

Unfortunately most people are ignorant or too lazy of what they can do to achieve this...

Personally I recycle almost all of my household waste - the only things I can't recycle are animal products such as meat, bones, dairy etc.

My lights where expedient are enviro friendly using about a quarter of normal energy and I turn off the main power in the living room which shuts down my PC equipment and TV - TVs on standby use up 80% of the power of TVs that are switched on...

Also I walk almost everywhere and aside from not owning a car, I think I have ridden on public transport on average about once or twice a week.

All this takes almost no effort whatsoever - just a slight change in habits.

	15-11-2003 23:29									#13
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People are not going to get too upset about global warming until they understand how it affects them personally. People in Minneapolis, for example, are not cowering in fear over shorter winters, warmer nights and longer growing seasons.