17-11-2003 19:08									#1
	Bombard Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Can bombard every kill a unit out right? I thinki it should be able to and I have never seen it in the game. Personaly I think that a coastal fortress should be able to sink ships with one hit. It would make them a lot more forbidable for stoping amphib attacks.

Also do people find artillert uselss. ?

	17-11-2003 19:30									#2
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Artillary usless? PAH!

Lets say you have held onto an elite Knight (4/3/2) for ages in order to try to get a MGL. You are in the late industrial age and there are Infantry (6/10/1) all over the place defending cities you want to capture. Send a stack of about 5 to 10 art (yes, I like overkill) covered by an inf of your own and your Elite Knight. You bomb the crap out of the city with the art until all defenders have only one hit point (which should be easy now that bombard hits units first) then go in with the knight. In 5 RNG situations, all you would need them is a single victory to kill an Infantry with a Knight. You will find that later in the game, Artilleray is not only useful, but essential.

	17-11-2003 19:33									#3
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Oh yeah, the only way to allow a bombard to kill a unit, it would need the leathal land/sea bombard option flagged on the editor. Currently, I do not believe that any units have it marked (except possibly the Korean Ha'Wacha, because it is a UU. I am unsure of this though.)

	17-11-2003 22:24									#4
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Currently, I do not believe that any units have it marked (except possibly the Korean Ha'Wacha, because it is a UU. I am unsure of this though.)

Yes, the Bomber and maybe the Stealth Bomber now has lethal bombardment, as of Conquests. That's the main reason they added the anti-air units. And yes, the Ha'Wacha does have it as well.

	17-11-2003 23:18									#5
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Yes you can now sink those ships with bombers in C3C. For the most part you have to drop them down to 1 HP, but I was able to sink a few with 2 HP.

	17-11-2003 23:41									#6
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Artillery useless?

Artillery is one of the most unbalancing parts of the game. Its so devastating that its not even fun. It takes away a lot of the challenge. And there is no way that the ai can use it as well a human.

	18-11-2003 07:46									#7
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Send a stack of about 5 to 10 art (yes, I like overkill)...

Are you kidding?

"Hmmm... let's see, I have about 60 Arty to be deployed... is that two stacks of 30, or do I go crazy and send out three stacks of 20?"



Actually, I've cut waaaaay back on my use of Arty in PTW... I just don;t like all the damage and destruction. Not sure yet what I'll be doing in C3C.

	18-11-2003 08:31									#8
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quote: Originally posted by nuther Artillery useless? Artillery is one of the most unbalancing parts of the game. Its so devastating that its not even fun. It takes away a lot of the challenge. And there is no way that the ai can use it as well a human.

amen brother - as impressed as i am with conquests, i am mildly furious that this has been left unfixed. i really thinking they weould give the ai at least some ability to use land arty effectively. really - once a human figures this one out the ai is a pathetic, doomed weakling. gigantic hole, this one.

	18-11-2003 20:30									#9
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I love artillery. Contrary to donegeal's statement, you can NEVER have too much overkill!

I know there are several on this forum whom disagree, but one thing that's always bothered me is that arty can NOT kill units. One of the first things I always do is use the editor to enable lethal bombardment--at least for sea, and most of the time for land as well.

I know, I know, it can be an unbalance that the AI won't use (haven't tried it yet in c3c), but it just seems wrong to me that you could nuke a ship and it be able to limp-off and recover health. Or, that some military unit could take an arty shell (or a hurled boulder, for that matter) to the chest, dig-in for a few turns and be perfectly OK. That whole concept just seems wrong to me.

As far as imbalance goes, well, I think that the great imbalance is a human player vs a computer. Even though the AI seems to be getting better, and I still don't win as much as I think I should, I think that any advantage that I can get, the better (for me anyways. I don't care about fairness to a computer.)

Anyway that's just my 2 cents worth. I love HUGE stacks of Leathal Arty!!!

	18-11-2003 22:52									#10
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yes you can now sink those ships with bombers in C3C. For the most part you have to drop them down to 1 HP, but I was able to sink a few with 2 HP.

You can also destroy land units IIRC.

	19-11-2003 03:16									#11
	Re: Bombard Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by pmaura Can bombard every kill a unit out right? I thinki it should be able to and I have never seen it in the game. Personaly I think that a coastal fortress should be able to sink ships with one hit. It would make them a lot more forbidable for stoping amphib attacks. Also do people find artillert uselss. ?

Do coastal fortresses even do anything??? I have NEVER seen them do anything whatsoever, and they've had plenty of opportunities to take potshots.

	23-11-2003 03:02									#12
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Yes please answer this question. I have never seen them do anything at all.

	23-11-2003 05:24									#13
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i've seen them take potshots before...

the unit has to move from a tile near the city to ANOTHER tile near the city (like ZOC for units)

	24-11-2003 02:44									#14
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I have seen an attacking ship 'all of a sudden' lose 1 or 2 hp's when they attacked one of my cities. I think in the latest PTW patch, there's even a pop-up that says something like, "Coastal Fortress kicks-in". (That's just a paraphrase)

Edit>> Or perhaps it was MY ship that lost some points because of their Coastal Fortress. It's been so long, I can't remember.



I haven't seen it yet in C3C.

	24-11-2003 04:58									#15
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I hear they changed a bit in C3C, but I never build them. In CivIII and PTW the AI would just stay out of their range. So I guess in a sense they worked as you seldom got anyone coming into the harbor of that city, sort of like an elephant fence in LA.

	26-11-2003 20:28									#16
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Something that I've noticed about Naval Bombardment: If you bombard a city with any naval units inside, your ships always hit (assuming that it IS actually a hit) ships first. If you want to wear-down the defenders hit points using ships, you must first redline any ships that are within the city, then you may start wearing down any land-based defenders.

A possible strategy to use if the AI is bombarding your town w/ ships, build a ship of your own (preferably in a city w/ a harbor) to 'catch' the bombs. That way your land units won't suffer from naval bombard. So far, ships don't seem to have 'Leathal enabled' so your ship will get redlined, then (if you have a harbor) will be fully healed next turn (like land units fortified in a city w/ a Barracks.)

	26-11-2003 21:15									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Willem You can also destroy land units IIRC.

Right on!

I love it when my bombers blow away a tank column. Very satisfying. This is one addition I'm really enjoying - air units are very useful now!

As far as artillery...maybe once in awhile, one little AI cannon will poke out, shoot and run away. I more often see the AI artillery when going around enemy cities or units (a la blitzkreig) and they shoot then. I would agree the AI doesn't understand how to use the artillery.

	27-11-2003 08:40									#18
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OK, here's a list (taken from settings viewed in the editor) of units that have lethal Sea Bombardment

Dromon
H'wacha
Fighter
Bomber
Jet Fighter
Stealth Fighter
F-15
Stealth Bomber
Cruise Missile

and that have lethal land bombardment

H'wacha
Bomber
Stealth Fighter
F-15
Stealth Bomber
Cruise Missile

Interesting how it gives the Byzantines and especially Koreans a GA-capable UU. Also to note, the Dromon has a ROF of 2, so you can kill another ship without even realising it! This is exactly what started my GA when I bombarded a Galley for the second time, when it had 2hp left - I killed it!