18-11-2003 02:11									#1
	why am i such a turkey? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have been playing conquests and civ III for several months now, exclusively at Monarch Level and generally (but not always) get creamed. I always am the French and play an aggressive game, particularly in the early game. I play on a normaL world with moderate-sized
continents.

Can anyone provide me with some basic strategms which confirm/disagree/add to the following techniques I use?

1. Build barracks and produce a few spearmen but concentrate on warriors (for later conversion to swordsmen)
2. Build 4 cities (including capital) and then go to war and capture the rest
3. When unrest becomes a hassle, build temples (generally one city at a time)
4. Can't get those wonders unless I get lucky and get a leader so I don't even try.
5. Use first leader to build Forbidden Palace at strategic location -- generally 2 or more cities removed from capital -- surrounded by other cities. If no leader available, build in a city with decent production
6.I got more to say but no room...u get the idea)

	18-11-2003 03:26									#2
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quote: 2. Build 4 cities (including capital) and then go to war and capture the rest

I've always tried to build as many cities as possible until I reach the borders of the other civs in the game. Then I go to war to capture more. With only 4 cities it would be difficult to have the production base to build enough units to go on the offensive. Of course you need to keep a defensive force guarding your outer ring cities during you expansion phase in case you run into an aggressive civ or a horde of barbarians.

quote: 4. Can't get those wonders unless I get lucky and get a leader so I don't even try.

I try to start my first Wonder, usually in my starting city, by the time I've built my 3rd of 4th city. The newer cities are used to produce defensive units/workers/settlers, while my capital is busy for 40 or more turns building a wonder. I usually build the Pyramids if I can beat the other civ's to it.

quote: I always am the French

If you can't win playing one civ, try another. A players style of play can be enhanced by selecting the proper civilization attributes and unique units ability that match the way you like to build up your civilization. Some civs unique units are available in the early game. If you like to go to war early, pick one of those civs. Some are mid-game units, if you like to expand early and go to war in the mid-game, then select those civs and so on.

	18-11-2003 03:37									#3
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Midwood,

You forgot to mention number of civs you play with. That makes a huge difference. You can't play the same game with 3 civs that you play with 31 civs.

To conduct a successful campaign, you need:
1. military units,
2. transportation for the units
3. unit replacement capability
4. relative tech parity
5. civ friends.

Check out civfan War Academy for ideas. Particularly pay close attention to worker tasks.

Recall WWII history, US won not because of superior technology or forces in the field at the start but because of alliances and production capability.

Super early warfare is not needed on Monarch level.

-- PF

	18-11-2003 07:58									#4
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Try Germany and an ultra-early Archer rush... 4 cities is about right, start on the conservative side, say 1 Spear and 6-8 Archers as your first sally. Bop some Settlers en route.

	18-11-2003 10:27									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Because of your WADDLE, no prbs being a turkey........ chuckle, chuckle

Reply to orig. post!

	18-11-2003 10:48									#6
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To give you more information we need the details of your game, and a save or picture of your civilization. Do you have an exact log of what you do?

	18-11-2003 12:17									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Personally I like a good REX before heading into battle, so I go for pottery and a granery in the capital to pump out settlers

but an early rush can catch the AI off guard, but if you fail to capture/raze cities, you'll be further behind.

I love it when the AI begs for mercy after you've bopped a few settlers

I've found that I have much better luck with huts in conquests, more techs with non-expansionist civs, so REX and pop and I've actually ended up leading or in 2nd place on emperor.

	18-11-2003 12:38									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by planetfall Recall WWII history, US won not because of superior technology or forces in the field at the start but because of alliances and production capability.

That's a very... odd view of modern history you have. While I suppose is is accurate to say that the 'US won because of her allies' it carries the implication that it was an American war. It wasn't. America's entry may have tipped the scales to an extent only bettered by Russia's entry but it was still a fundementally European conflict and therefore more accurate to say that the UK and France won because of their alliances with the US and Russia.

I know it seems pedantic but that's just how it is.

	18-11-2003 15:42									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

My usual tactic with as France is to build in the ancient era and grab as much uncontested territory as possible. Aim for 10-12 cities on a standard map. Then go to war in the early medieval. Industrious workers means lots of mines and irrigation by then so productive cities that can pump out knights. Eventually a musketeer will trigger your GA and you should win from there in most circumstances.

	18-11-2003 18:29									#10
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God, how boring to play only the same civ! Is it because you like those funky Musketeers? Try being the Iroquois, Celts or the Persians if you're so keen on "early wars". And stop building the Forbidden Palace so near your capital. I generally wait until I get a Great Leader and build it a long way from home, giving me in effect two empires.

	18-11-2003 19:18									#11
	thanks for your reply: Enter the AD-FREE zone

planetfall: thx. here's some more info/questions

1. I play with 7 civs
2. how do i get to civfan war academy?
3. Roughly, how aggressive should I be before I stop
expansion and concentrate on economic growth? should I stop after zapping 1 civ? stop after I have "x" amount of cities?

	18-11-2003 20:52									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Faboba That's a very... odd view of modern history you have. While I suppose is is accurate to say that the 'US won because of her allies' it carries the implication that it was an American war. It wasn't. America's entry may have tipped the scales to an extent only bettered by Russia's entry but it was still a fundementally European conflict and therefore more accurate to say that the UK and France won because of their alliances with the US and Russia. I know it seems pedantic but that's just how it is.

We're both right. It was a WW with European and Asia Theaters. US was only power with significant forces in both theaters.

But US did NOT win European theater by itself. France was chewed up. UK bought time with Battle of Britain. The real German unit chopper was not US, but USSR artillery and winter weather attacking Germans tried to fight with summer uniforms. US may have received the glory in D-Day, but D-Day was not possible without the Russian meatgrinder. UK's biggest victory was keeping a 2nd front open though out the war.

Asia Theater was primarily a continental war with China and an island war with US. Obviously the dropping of nukes was the event that stopped the Japan invasion plan by US. Unlike the European Theater, there was not a strong first front that enabled the US to move on the second front. No Euro nations had a significant involvment in Asia theater. Closest involvement was USSR and they were primarily interested in paying back the Germans like they paid back the Napoleanic armies and not landing in Japan or scooping up Japan occupied lands before China reasserted control.

As you so wisely said,
I know it seems pedantic but that's just how it is.


-- PF

	18-11-2003 21:05									#13
	Re: thanks for your reply: Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by midwood57 planetfall: thx. here's some more info/questions 1. I play with 7 civs 2. how do i get to civfan war academy?

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3academy.shtml

quote: 3. Roughly, how aggressive should I be before I stop expansion and concentrate on economic growth? should I stop after zapping 1 civ? stop after I have "x" amount of cities?

It depends on your goals. Some like the challenge of playing with only one city. Because of WW most seem to like an oscilating war and peace. Another way to discuss this is to oscilate between builder and war monger. There is no magic formula you can use in all games.

I like to play with enough cities to be able to build FP. Beyond that it all depends. Sometimes I stop there, usually I build a few more for contential security or resource capture. Getting to a one color world map, your color of course , looks cool, but may not be most effective because of waste and corruption. I used to play for a one color map, but that play style is now too tedious, and is not that important to me anymore.

Besides warfare, you need to handle trading. This game seems to be a balance between Improvement + Expansion + Research + Trade Associations + Civ Alliances. But you know that, right.

This is what makes civ a good game. There is no one good answer. There are advantages and risks to all decisions.

-- PF

	18-11-2003 21:13									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Milwood,

To echo another, why are you always playing the French? Your play style focuses on military. France is commerical and industrial. Musketman is a defensive unit not offensive. You seem to like offensive.

I would suggest trying a game as one of these civs and see if you like the play better:

Romans
Chinese
Japanese
Aztec

Vikings
Celts
Ottomans
Arabs

-- PF

	18-11-2003 21:16									#15
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I would recommend you try to play the Persians for your playing style and not the French for one time and see if you like it

	19-11-2003 23:59									#16
	my playing style Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Truth be known, I would LOVE to be peaceful but my experience has been that nice guys finish last. You are implying that one can get techs,etc with a modicum of warmongering.

My general style has not been all war; rather, it has been something like attack,develop,attack, develop, wait to be attacked and counter-attack. I strive to get 100% of my continent and then attack only if i think the AI is going to let another civ win via space race or UN.

Thanks all. I think I will place less emphasis on war with the French and/or maybe be the Persians and kill everything that moves.

By the way, I think there is SO much variety in the game that I found 1 civ to play to be fine (I chose the French primarily on the recommendation of the "French Zulu".)

	20-11-2003 01:48									#17
	Re: why am i such a turkey? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by midwood57 1. Build barracks and produce a few spearmen but concentrate on warriors (for later conversion to swordsmen)

This might not be a viable strat in C3C because of the higher costs of upgrading.

	20-11-2003 02:10									#18
	Re: why am i such a turkey? Enter the AD-FREE zone

Mw57,

You know, there's really no perfect algorithim for Civ3.

quote: Originally posted by midwood57 1. Build barracks and produce a few spearmen but concentrate on warriors (for later conversion to swordsmen)

This will backfire if you don't have iron. In the very early game, I tend to build a mix of things, including granaries and temples. You might want to consider devoting some cities to producing troops, which get barracks, some cities to producing workers and settlers, which get granaries, some cities to pushing out your borders, others to trade... diversify a little until your exploration dictates where you need to focus.

quote: 2. Build 4 cities (including capital) and then go to war and capture the rest

This will backfire if your competitors only provide you with poorly-placed cities. If you really want a magic number, I'd up it to at least six, if you're playing on a normal sized map.

quote: 3. When unrest becomes a hassle, build temples (generally one city at a time)

This one I just don't think much of at all. The luxury slider is for unrest (along with garrisons), temples are for pushing out borders (which may get you luxuries). The slider is one of the most important tools for managing the game. It's one of the "check every turn" items.

quote: 4. Can't get those wonders unless I get lucky and get a leader so I don't even try.

This depends... I typically take wonders in the early game from my neighbours, but sometimes it makes sense to have a productive city on permanent pre-build status in order to grab a particularly necessary one, like the GLight on some maps, GLib on higher difficulty levels, etc.

quote: 5. Use first leader to build Forbidden Palace at strategic location -- generally 2 or more cities removed from capital -- surrounded by other cities. If no leader available, build in a city with decent production.

This sounds like such a serious miscalculation I wonder if you've presented it wrong. "2 or more"? Under PTW corruption conditions, the FP gives the greatest benefit when it's placed far, far away from your capital, giving you two productive cores. I usually build it a third of the continent away, if I can. There are lots of Strategy forum threads on FP placement; check them out. NB: FP is broken in C3C, as I understand.

quote: [SIZE=1]6.I got more to say but no room...u get the idea)

The idea I get is that you might be applying what are typically reasonable strategies a bit too broadly. Let your environment impact your overall strategy. More micromanagement may well be necessary; don't waste trade, shields, or food by letting your cities just do their own thing. Invest a lot of time on the different advisor screens, esp. City Management and Diplomacy.

Oh yeah, do try to calculate on your own what the effect will be of switching gov'ts is before you go ahead and do it. Going to Republic before having marketplaces maximizing your trade and luxury effects can be a lot worse than staying in Despotism.