 |
| |
|
|
Imran Siddiqui
|
 |
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
|
|
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/16/opinion/16FRIE.html
quote:
Wanted: Fanatical Moderates
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: November 16, 2003
You know when I really get mad? It's when my wife tells me I'm not helping around the house — and I have not been helping around the house. There is nothing more enraging than someone exposing your faults — and being right.
What is true at home is true in diplomacy. I was reminded of that watching the enraged, hysterical reaction of Israel's ruling Likud Party to the virtual peace treaty — known as the Geneva Accord — that was hammered out by Yossi Beilin, the former Israeli justice minister, and Yasir Abed Rabbo, the former Palestinian information minister. Mr. Beilin and Mr. Abed Rabbo, with funding from the Swiss government, decided to see if they could draw up a detailed peace treaty, with maps, at a time when their governments were paralyzed. After three years, they did it. They shook hands on it Oct. 12 and today they are mailing copies in Hebrew and Arabic to every home in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.
Ariel Sharon and his far-right coalition threw a fit, crying treason and sputtering about the gall, the "chutzpah," of Mr. Beilin drawing up a virtual peace treaty with Yasir Arafat's deputy. The Likud's over-the-top criticism of Mr. Beilin — and of the Israeli Army chief of staff when he pointed out the Sharon government's reluctance to strengthen Palestinian moderates — had all the earmarks of a ruling party that knows it has not washed the dishes, not made any creative initiatives for peace since coming to power, and hates being exposed.
The Geneva Accord fleshes out the peace initiative first outlined by President Clinton. You don't have to accept every word to see its basic wisdom and fairness: In return for peace with Israel, the Palestinians get a nonmilitarized state in the West Bank and Gaza. They also get the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem and sovereignty over the Temple Mount, but under a permanent international security force, with full Jewish access. The Israelis get to keep settlements housing about 300,000 of the 400,000 Jews in the West Bank (in return for an equivalent amount of land from Israel), including virtually all the new Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem built in the Arab side of the city. About 30,000 Palestinian refugees get to return to their homes in Israel proper, and all refugees receive compensation. Polls show 35 to 40 percent of Israelis and Palestinians already support the deal, without either government having endorsed it.
"Our agreement is virtual, because we are not the government and do not pretend to be," said Mr. Beilin, whose deal was co-signed by a former Israeli Army chief of staff, a former deputy Mossad chief and leaders from Mr. Arafat's Tanzim militia. "But we need to create a virtual world that will impact the real world by demonstrating that a workable deal is possible. It is inconceivable that for the past three years there have been no official meetings between Israelis and Palestinians about a permanent solution."
By 2010 or so, there will be more Palestinians than Jews living in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza put together. "We will fairly soon be losing the Jewish majority," added Mr. Beilin. "This may not interest President Bush, but it interests me and should interest Sharon. If we don't do something to create a border with the Palestinians, we're going to put an end to the Zionist dream."
What I have always admired about Mr. Beilin is that he is a fanatical moderate — as committed to his moderation as the extremists are to their extremism. In a Middle East where extremists tend to go all the way and moderates tend just to go away, the example that he and his Palestinian partners are setting is critical. It shows that civil society in Israel and the West Bank is still alive and refuses to give in to pessimism. But they need, and deserve, courage and help from America now too.
We owe them that. We owe ourselves that. Because the same struggle is afoot in Saudi Arabia and Iraq, where extremists have been intimidating moderates, by going all the way — by blowing up the Red Cross, the U.N. and fellow Muslims. We can train all the police we want in Iraq or around the Arab world, but unless we can strengthen moderates there — those ready to act on the hopes of the intimidated majorities — a decent future will be impossible.
So moderates of the world unite! We have nothing to lose but our pessimism. Either we make the future bury the past, or the bad guys will ensure that the past buries the future. |
Get these guys in power and lets get this deal done  .
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Zevico
|
|
Melbourne
Apr 2002
time: 15:32
|
|
Right...because this has worked SO MANY TIMES BEFORE WITH YASSER ARAFAT AND COMPANY.
Wake up, people. The PA education system consists of hatred against Israel and Jews; the PA media consists of hatred against Israel and Jews; everything about Israel and Jews is utterly, completely vilified, including its right to exist at all.
Palestinian schoolbooks praise "martyrs" while at the same time, Yasser Arafat says he wants peace. The two are mutually exclusive, in my not so humble opinion.
Yasser Arafat is incompetent at leading a small amount of territories, funds terrorist organisations, is corrupt, and yet people still want to talk to him or the PA.
The Geneva Initiative might have been a good idea, if none of this were true, if Yasser and his henchmen (and his henchmen did sign this) were really good guys at heart. A quick look at the facts should show otherwise, however.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Zevico
|
|
Melbourne
Apr 2002
time: 15:32
|
|
As to your claim that moderates actually exist on the Arab side, they are, to my regret, untrue. Dear Leader Yasser controls the PA in its entirety, and though opposition to Yasser is tentatively allowed, it is followed by gunmen coming by the house of the opposition and firing AK 47 rounds. Thus moderates simply cannot exist, for they are stamped out by the majority of the organisation. Which is another point--anyone in the Palestinian territories that wants recognition of Israel's existence is a heretic; anyone who does not want a future Palestinian state "in theory" in Israel is considered as a far right winger. Sharon and the Likud are right wing, but not far right. Even far right, however, respects the right to live of Arabs, unlike the radicals (and I 'daresay' the moderates) of the palestinian poltical arena.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Zevico
|
|
Melbourne
Apr 2002
time: 15:32
|
|
quote:
The fact is, the continual and planned humiliation and harassment of the entire palestinian nation by the IDF was going on decades before the first suicide bombings happened. Now they just provide a somewhat convenient excuse for said activity. |
Edit for clarification (and politeness, no doubt):
Suicide bombings are not the only form of terrorism, Buckseed. Before suicide bombers could be used, infiltrations into Israeli territory occurred MANY times: the War of Attrition is the probably the most prominent string of examples. Thus your claim is incorrect.
Furthermore, even assuming that what you say of deliberate harassment and etc by the IDF is true (and I personally disagree):
1) Terror attacks occurred before the IDF had the run of any Palestinian civilian population.
2) Even so, the most Palestinians could do according to their very argument is to attack soldiers and the military. Though the military has been occasionally been targetted during the Intifada, the vast majority of attacks have been of a terrorist nature-ie. specifically against civilians.
quote:
Yes it's clearly the palestinians building a wall around Israel and keeping an army dedicated to harassing its population. And all those horrible Palestinian settlers wrecking the peace process, nasty stuff. |
Firstly, the wall is to protect the Israeli civilian population from terror attacks. I personally would prefer it a few people lost their farmland over a few people losing their lives. As for the settlers, they are the least of the peace process' problems. If it were a matter of settlers, then the issue would long be over, or at least there would be no intifada, in my opinion.
Also, the journalist in the article stated that Yossi Beilin was a fanatical moderate. This is incorrect. Yossi Beilin is regarded by the Israeli public mainly as a left/far left/delusional politican (depending on how far your views go). But he is certainly not a moderate. I think that this sheer ignorance of Israeli politics alone should make any other opinion this journalist has on the ME (or at least Israel and the the conflict b/w Israel and the Palestinians) totally irrelevant.
Last edited by Zevico on 18-11-2003 at 17:58
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Edan
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
The truth is that many of these guys were in power, and they offered almost this exact same plan, and Arafat rejected it! |
Then why is Sharon blabbering on about how much of a traitor Beilin is?
The fact of the matter is that it does give more concessions than that Clinton plan. First, it gives Palestine control over Arab East Jerusalem settlements (the Clinton plan did not). It exchanges settlement land (given to Israel) for Israeli land given to Palestine. And MOST important is allows about 30,000 Palestines right of return (compensation for the rest). |
Actually, you're incorrect (or at least misleading):
The Clinton plan gave Arabs sovereignty over one neighborhood in East Jerusalem, as well as administrative control of all Arabs in Jerusalem.
The clinton plan did have have a swap for land (although I'm not sure if that swap is different now than it was before), and the Clinton plan did allow for a number of Palestinians to enter Israel for "family reunification" (as well as compensation for the rest) in order to completely end the right of return issue - indeed, I think th enumber being proposed was somewhat higher than 30,000 (maybe 50k?) - but the right of return has become far less an important issue now that polls have shown that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians don't want to "return".
OTOH, this plan makes Israel give up Ariel, IIRC, so it gives slighly more to the Palestinians than the Clinton proposal (although I very much doubt Ariel was a deal breaker).
In the end, it seems like a reasonable (if not perfect) plan. Assuming it ever goes anywhere, and that the Palestinians are capable of dismantling the terrorist groups.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:32.
Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
18-11-2003 02:26
.
|