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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-General > Man am I impressed...
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Traelin is offline Traelin
Prince
Miami, FL, US
Nov 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 03:34
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Man am I impressed... Full PM-box? Change here!

OK I've usually been involved in constructive criticism of PTW, but I really have to give credit where credit is due WRT C3C. Here's some of the changes I REALLY, REALLY dig:

1. Deserts giving 3 food when irrigated. What a great change. I can't stress this enough. It's realistic too.

2. AI not building a ridiculous amount of nukes, and not using them liberally (if at all). The developers are to be commended for this. How annoying it would be for me when the AIs (usually Rome) would nuke each other into oblivion and I'd be left with Mars in return. Either that or I'd end up having that "nuke crash to desktop" scenario.

3. Lethal bombardment. BIGTIME KUDOS FOR THIS ONE. Finally bombers are realistic.

4. AIs' use of air and naval warfare. So much good stuff has gone into the AI here. The AI now finally realizes the value of striking the city instead of the surrounding tiles. WTF would they want to destroy a perfectly good countryside anyways?

5. Cutthroat AI. Thank God the AI is now more willing to finish off opponents that they have by the cajones.

6. Limited rebase range. Awesome.

7. The Dutch. They make me very happy indeed. I finally have a non-militaristic Civ that I enjoy playing. Which leads to...

8. Agricultural and Seafaring traits. Man are these traits awesome when you are militaristic by nature and have Armies. Which leads to...

9. Army improvements. Movement, attack, defense, healing abilities all got much-needed improvements. Man are Armies awesome, and deservedly so.

10. Lack of sleep and sustenance. Oh wait a minute, this is not good. I haven't gone to the gym all week because of this d*mn game. The "one more turn" feeling is back for me in force. And the Modern Age absolutely rocks now IMO.

Sigh life is too short to be wasted away on a game.

pauli is offline pauli
Prince
herndon, va, usa
Jan 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 03:46 Visit pauli's homepage!
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quote:

1. Deserts giving 3 food when irrigated. What a great change. I can't stress this enough. It's realistic too.


@_@

wow. i wish i'd known. time to check it out...

Catt is offline Catt
King
California - SF Bay Area
May 2002
time: 21:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 04:10
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quote:
Originally posted by pauli


@_@

wow. i wish i'd known. time to check it out...


Irrigated deserts with an oasis produce 3 food for most civs, 4 food for agricultural civs (both subject to the depotism tile penalty). Normal deserts remain unchanged from PTW - except that agricultural civs can irrigate and have them jump from 0 to 2 food.

Catt

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 04:18 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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I want this game

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 07:20
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quote:
6. Limited rebase range. Awesome.

How does this work now, what has changed?

Catt is offline Catt
King
California - SF Bay Area
May 2002
time: 21:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by alva
quote:
6. Limited rebase range. Awesome.

How does this work now, what has changed?


I believe, but am not sure, that rebasing an air unit is limited to a maximum distance of 3x the air unit's range -- i.e., a bomber with 10-tile range could rebase no more than 30 tiles away in any one turn.

Catt

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 09:15
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I did not measure the range, but it sure seem to be plenty far enough. I rebase to another contient with no probelm. Each time a rebase, I expect to find it was not allowed, but that never happened.

dexters is offline dexters
King
Vancouver, Canada
Nov 2001
time: 05:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 10:51 Visit dexters's homepage!
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quote:
The AI now finally realizes the value of striking the city instead of the surrounding tiles. WTF would they want to destroy a perfectly good countryside anyways?


That's actually one thing we are pushing to change. Bombarding cities works if the AI actually has troops marching towards that city in that turn. Most of the time, AI ships just bombard random cities within their range. The units heal the next turn. No damage done. Bombarding countryside affect production, road networks and gold income. it does more damage. May not be realistic to you, but it worked in vanilla civ3.

Anun Ik Oba is offline Anun Ik Oba
Emperor
Grace of God
Sep 1999
time: 00:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 11:36
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The AI still pillages a bit. So far in my games, its been doing so smartly.

steven8r is offline steven8r
Prince
of Central Texas
May 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 20:05
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#10. I can certainly identify with this one!!

I just got the game. Hello C3C, Goodbye weekend, weeknights, work-time, family, dogs, etc.

I'm not adicted! I can quit anytime I want--just one more turn!

Traelin is offline Traelin
Prince
Miami, FL, US
Nov 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 20:31
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quote:
Originally posted by dexters

That's actually one thing we are pushing to change. Bombarding cities works if the AI actually has troops marching towards that city in that turn. Most of the time, AI ships just bombard random cities within their range. The units heal the next turn. No damage done. Bombarding countryside affect production, road networks and gold income. it does more damage. May not be realistic to you, but it worked in vanilla civ3.


IMO I hated when the AI bombarded the countryside. And what was even stupider was that if you captured THEIR cities, they would immediately bombard their OWN former cities (EDIT: cities' COUNTRYSIDES) into oblivion. By the time they can bombard en masse anyways, your production isn't going to be greatly affected by this tactic since you'll likely have a good-sized core. It's just a huge irritant. Bombarding a city IMO is incredibly smart because they can bring down your entire defenses, thereby enabling a much swifter capture of the city.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and how can you affect the production of a city any more than by bombarding it directly, removing improvements (ala factories etc.), and by decreasing the population? Bigtime, bigtime to changing the AI behavior on this.

Last edited by Traelin on 18-11-2003 at 21:00

Traelin is offline Traelin
Prince
Miami, FL, US
Nov 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Catt


Irrigated deserts with an oasis produce 3 food for most civs, 4 food for agricultural civs (both subject to the depotism tile penalty). Normal deserts remain unchanged from PTW - except that agricultural civs can irrigate and have them jump from 0 to 2 food.

Catt


I'm using the Dutch ATM, and I'm almost positive (haven't played in a couple days) that my irrigated and railroaded deserts (w/out oases) are producing 3 food. That's one better than it used to be. Let me recheck it though.

Traelin is offline Traelin
Prince
Miami, FL, US
Nov 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
I did not measure the range, but it sure seem to be plenty far enough. I rebase to another contient with no probelm. Each time a rebase, I expect to find it was not allowed, but that never happened.


I play on huge maps, so maybe that is why I have had rebasing issues. Either way I like the change, because it just feels more realistic.

player1 is offline player1
King
Belgrade, YU
Sep 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 20:50
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Agricultureal civs, like Dutch, produce extra +1food when irrigrating deserts.

So that gives 3 food with railroaded desert.

Pretty cool (especialy in Mesopotamia scenario were Egyptians are Agricultural).

Catt is offline Catt
King
California - SF Bay Area
May 2002
time: 21:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 20:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Traelin


I'm using the Dutch ATM, and I'm almost positive (haven't played in a couple days) that my irrigated and railroaded deserts (w/out oases) are producing 3 food. That's one better than it used to be. Let me recheck it though.


Agricultural civ + irrigated desert = 2 food.

Ag civ + Irr desert + RR = 3 food.

Catt

Traelin is offline Traelin
Prince
Miami, FL, US
Nov 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 20:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Catt


Agricultural civ + irrigated desert = 2 food.

Ag civ + Irr desert + RR = 3 food.

Catt


Ahh Catt, for the clarification. Well that is awesome IMO. Now it really is gonna be hard for me to play a non-Agr Civ because I always seem to end up having my initial city core in deserts. BTW, is there a Mil./Agr. Civ now? I'm being lazy and don't feel like looking it up.

kring is offline kring
King
Wichita,KS,USA
Dec 2001
time: 23:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 23:18 Visit kring's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Traelin


Ahh Catt, for the clarification. Well that is awesome IMO. Now it really is gonna be hard for me to play a non-Agr Civ because I always seem to end up having my initial city core in deserts. BTW, is there a Mil./Agr. Civ now? I'm being lazy and don't feel like looking it up.


Aztecs

lockstep is offline lockstep
King
Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 18-11-2003 23:20
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Aztecs were changed to Mil/Agr.

EDIT: Another crosspost.

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