18-11-2003 05:26									#1
	Turn Tracking Thread of Mabb: 2 Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Original Players


arborman - University of Planet
knowhow2 - Peacekeepers
Bella Hella - Cyborg Consciousness
Black Sunrise - Free Drones
AI - Hive, Believers and Pirates


Thinker level.
Current players

Flubber - University
Hercules - Peacekeepers
Darsnan - Cyborg Consciousness
Lazerus - Free Drones

Last edited by Hercules on 25-11-2003 at 03:39

	18-11-2003 05:27									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Turn 2235 to Darsnan

	25-11-2003 02:29									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Turn 2236 to Darsnan Attached.

This is the second turn and email returned by your Web server/ISP. Something about Road Runner security. Is it temporary or a permanaent Block?

My other email, turns and sends to other people seem to go Ok

Attachment: mabb-darsnan-2236.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	25-11-2003 02:57									#4
	Put an end to popups!

I thought I was a replacement in this one -- My memory must be failing me

	26-11-2003 22:25									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Flubber I thought I was a replacement in this one -- My memory must be failing me

You are in this one - read the whole message at the beginning of the thread.
I almost missed this, as I am not subsscribed to this thread, and I haven't been checking posts as much as I used to. I'll see about pushing this turn tonight along with my others. btw I will be OOT from Thursday morning est till Saturday evening-ish. FYI.


D

	27-11-2003 00:24									#6
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Darsnan You are in this one - read the whole message at the beginning of the thread. D

I doubt my memory sometimes but not my eyesight. I WAS listed as an original player. I think that the little edited tag means that hercules fixed the original post after my comment.

	27-11-2003 06:20									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

On to the Drones.


btw, I will be OOT from Thursday morning till Saturday evening-ish. FYI.


D

	27-11-2003 23:50									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Turn sent.


So humiliating, im going to be killed by worms ... and damn you're lucky i didnt have a SAM unit for after i gassed that base to death darsnan

	28-11-2003 05:39									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Turn sent on

Ya Laz your atrocity tactics were the biggest factor in bringing you to the brink of elimination. We all have to deal with the after-effects and I am beginning a major land raising campaign

	30-11-2003 05:17									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus So humiliating, im going to be killed by worms ... and damn you're lucky i didnt have a SAM unit for after i gassed that base to death darsnan

Its absolutely amazing/ absurb that even though I had no base this turn, I could still launch my aircraft on offensive missions into the remaining Drone cities!?!

Hmph. Anyways, turn away to the diminishingly effective Drones.....

D

	01-12-2003 15:52									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Turn sent.

Flubber you can stop with the propoganda, you took the opportunity to break a treaty and remove a rival before his defenses were up, simple as that. As for the atrocity tactics, they merely ensured that i survived abit longer, did abit more damage and that my memory will be a ***** for you all to have to deal with

Darsnan: I gassed more then last turn, you especially im going to hurt for breaking a pact after telling me we had good relations. The PK's have now overtaken you in the charts


*can see a pale rider upon a pale horse.

	01-12-2003 19:46									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Turn sent. Flubber you can stop with the propoganda, you took the opportunity to break a treaty and remove a rival before his defenses were up, simple as that. As for the atrocity tactics, they merely ensured that i survived abit longer, did abit more damage and that my memory will be a ***** for you all to have to deal with *can see a pale rider upon a pale horse.

wll yes, I did see an opportunity but my assessment was that you could have held out longer by conventional means . .. You razed your own bases before I was in any position to take them.

I actually felt a little bad about hitting at you so soon after you joined the game but the game was too far advanced. Giving you an opportunity to establish yourself would have probably meant your victory.

	01-12-2003 20:47									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That pale rider is coming closer-- On my turn I took the second-last base of the drones but I was unable to reach the final base so I cannot claim that Laz must eradicate his last base. If either of the other 2 players are able and willing to take out Laz's last base, this ability will end his faction's involvement and he will have to immediately disband all units and eradicate his last base to avoid the player elimination bug. I am hoping someone can get the base as otherwise those choppers will pile up more atrocities.


AS for rising sealevels-- I have proposed the raising of a solar shade-- THus far, myself and the 3 AI have all voted aye. I have never been sure of the exact effect of this but I hope to counter-act the worst of the rises and give everyone time to deal with them. AS for worms, my empath choppers find them quite yummy and hope to find a bunch more in Laz's former territory

2238 to hercules

	01-12-2003 20:56									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

everytime i flew a chopper nearby one of the conquered bases i saw a jump trooper and a good needlejet or something and knowing my own bases were not properly prepared the defender in there would have died and the base would have been taken next turn, hence i decided to lose that bases one turn extra alive and take away some of the benefit you would have gained.
BUT if you now look at the position of my remaining bases you cannot reach them by a jump and ive destroyed all conc bases within jump range my analysis is that ive lenghtened my time alive by around 4-6 turns.

I'm really surprised the drones were not destroyed earlier, as ive said their tech rate was nice but my god for an industrial faction having only a handful of bases above 10-15minerals at this stage and no defenders was very poor, so yes with the crawlers and unit upgrading i started another 10 turns without war i think i could have stayed with you until near transcendance, not having infiltrator on anybody was an annoyance aswell.


If anything i think not using chem warfare earlier was my mistake, when you landed i should have had a probe and X-8*2 chopper straight to the site, have the probe remove half your hp and then gas the base, since conventional chaos isn't enough against silksteel.

As for solar shade that lowers sea levels by 333m over 20years, currently sea levels are rising by something like 1000m over 20years and aslong as im alive theres 4 more pops each turn

Last edited by Lazerus on 01-12-2003 at 21:06

	01-12-2003 22:50									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus everytime i flew a chopper nearby one of the conquered bases i saw a jump trooper and a good needlejet or something and knowing my own bases were not properly prepared the defender in there would have died and the base would have been taken next turn, hence i decided to lose that bases one turn extra alive and take away some of the benefit you would have gained.

I understand. your comment below about lack of infiltration actually clarified a lot . . you did not know what was coming and from where . . . I assumed you had infiltration-- your predecessor's failure to infiltrate would be a HUGE HUGE impediment to warring effectively as your hands were tied by lack of infoprmation-- I actually fared poorly in the early battles(took more damage than the odds would indicate) so my troops actually needed time to recuperate. Your bases with an AC could have been tough nuts to crack.

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus BUT if you now look at the position of my remaining bases you cannot reach them by a jump and ive destroyed all conc bases within jump range my analysis is that ive lenghtened my time alive by around 4-6 turns.

I understand the strategy but I just jumped near and walked into your second last base-- and your final base is empty and surrounded by worms as well as being inside drop range of hercules who may be willing to kill you just to end the ecodamage . Either way, I think your next turn will be your last ( except for a turn to self-destruct although if herc claims a willingness to kill you, you are dead as of that moment and may make no further attacks)

I WAS impressed that you managed to kill so many consciousness bases . . . I actually feel bad that Darsnan bore the brunt of your revenge.

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus I'm really surprised the drones were not destroyed earlier, as ive said their tech rate was nice but my god for an industrial faction having only a handful of bases above 10-15minerals at this stage and no defenders was very poor, so yes with the crawlers and unit upgrading i started another 10 turns without war i think i could have stayed with you until near transcendance, not having infiltrator on anybody was an annoyance aswell.

I inherited a faction with no military and some odd terraforming, but with some solid foundations. . . I was busy boreholing and even now my faction is smaller and weaker than I like. I was going to play nice, thinking I could out-research folks but my empire has no defensive depth and would have been very vulnerable to a PB or two. . . . and Everyone was in range of my key bases. It WAS the construction of those PB's that tipped the balance and caused me to attack. You could PB from two directions and the empty base strategy is a good temporary measure only and very dangerous if you built any transports.

Also before I joined, I think that hercules and darsnan were warring each other when my faction was weak so I simply think that no one had really gone after the drones. I think most of us were busy taking over the AI as well

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus If anything i think not using chem warfare earlier was my mistake, when you landed i should have had a probe and X-8*2 chopper straight to the site, have the probe remove half your hp and then gas the base, since conventional chaos isn't enough against silksteel.

a probe wouldn't work since I have the hunter seeker and besides I believe I brought a probe along with me so as to have the opportunity to steal your ground units or bases. I also put a high powered interceptor over the road leading to the first base I conquered and had that interceptor cut that road. Nothing on the ground was getting to that first base. In fact, the only way to get it back quickly would have been amphibious assualt given its position across a narrow isthumus from the rest of your lands

Even an 8x chopper doesn't work that effectively . .. I believe I had a pretty high morale AA *2 jumper in my bases ( and something like 3 of them in the first base captured). Usually they were 3 or 4 armor so I had a defense strength of 12 to 16 BEFORE any sensor effects and I DO have infiltration on you so I knew what you could throw at me. Only a mass of choppers would have worked and you would probably have seen 3-4 die with the result of only damaging defenders.

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus As for solar shade that lowers sea levels by 333m over 20years, currently sea levels are rising by something like 1000m over 20years and aslong as im alive theres 4 more pops each turn

Four more pops-- how so ?-- I thought you could only get one per base per turn and you only have one base remaining. . . Labor Trust and its empty and within easy drop range of hercules seabase. It is generating 736 ecodamage though with mineral production of 6 ( net 0-- all used for support). Can you get more than one pop per base

So the net change is now about a 666 drop over 20 years--- Hmm I wonder how often I can raise the shade??If we can keep it to less than a 1000m drop I think we will be ok.

	01-12-2003 23:28									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Shade once every 20years as its a council proposal.
How'd you manage to be within range of 3 bases ? i thought all the worm filled fungus would have blocked easy troop movement and i was def outside drop range.

Breaking treaties i don't actually mind that much, but seeing as im not a builder i only make pacts when i intend to keep them, hence i feel betrayed by the backstab.

Herc, i hope, won't finish me off since i gave him several technologies as a gift for not joining in. Another turn having a laugh for me

	02-12-2003 01:48									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Shade once every 20years as its a council proposal. How'd you manage to be within range of 3 bases ? i thought all the worm filled fungus would have blocked easy troop movement and i was def outside drop range.

When I opened the turn you only had two bases left, Smokestack Hill and Labor Trust . take a look at the map again -- my base staples of life is only 10 tiles from smokestack hill with a road available and the exact same situation for spanner works so I had TWO bases and two possible approaches to successfully destroy your base. I actually think your other base is within drop range of darsnan if he could drop a rover on a river/road to it and use aircover to either blast through or ZOC past the worms.

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Breaking treaties i don't actually mind that much, but seeing as im not a builder i only make pacts when i intend to keep them, hence i feel betrayed by the backstab.

I often feel the same way but I have made pacts just for trade-- THis may sound weird after I jumped you but I keep my word . .. In our case I intentionally never committed to anything with you.

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Herc, i hope, won't finish me off since i gave him several technologies as a gift for not joining in. Another turn having a laugh for me

makes sense from his point of view and yours to do that deal. Whether he feels any ongoing obligation to you is his decision. The ecodamage is hurting herc the same as me . . . the only one facing negative impacts relative to the other humans is darsnan.

the worms must play after you and before me, if you ended with 4 bases, so if herc or darsnan do not get you, you will get one more turn . . . then the worms should kill the base as there are more of them than you have population points in your last base, unless you can blast the worms somehow

I am still suprised you are hitting darsnan and not me. I assume distance and defences were the reason. PLus I guess that reducing the population of someone with the cloning vats is sort of an empty threat if the base retains its improvements and facilities

Note to darsnan/ hercules

He has 5 x-choppers-- 4 of them are damaged at least 30% and one is undamaged so it must be in a base or airstrip somewhere-- ACTUALLY it is in a hercules base... so hercules is allowing one pactmate to base units in his base to attack another pactmate

It gets even stranger when you consider that darsnan has units in hercules bases as well

	02-12-2003 22:55									#18
	Remove this text

The worms razing bases may explain it, however i normally see the damage they do when i click turn complete
Theres alot of worms in there, i cant remember if you have the dream twister and im assuming ur still in FM so thats gonna be tough
Yes i know the pact is nice for trade bonus, but its a game, i like to stick in character most of the time and just make them when im forming an actual alliance, if i want to cancel i'll complain at their SE settings for a few turns then go down to treaty and distance myself from them or something like that.
No point in killing the worms, waste of good gas

quote: I am still suprised you are hitting darsnan and not me. I assume distance and defences were the reason. PLus I guess that reducing the population of someone with the cloning vats is sort of an empty threat if the base retains its improvements and facilities

exactly it, he can't pop boom aswell therefore i can do serious damage to his hopes of winning.

its a strange little world aint it

	03-12-2003 03:41									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Schhhessh, I wish I had read these most recent posts before I played. I thought they were just the normal turn tracking and didn't visit the thread since 30 nov. Very interesting and I think useful to have a post mortem analysis.

I saw Lazerus's empty base but thought Flubber or Darsnan would make the final threat call as I was still in Pact. Also I thought Flubber or Darsnan would think it a tad cheeky me delivering the final blow.

With the Global Shade proposal passed I thought the eco threat was sort of eased but I now understand that may not be the case.

Re Laz's chopper in my base. I was surprised but asssumed Lazerus was retreating there temporarily.

Anyway turn 2238 played already and now sent to Darsnan.

	04-12-2003 03:01									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hmm, my Anniversary Day for signing onto this game ( 2 years I've been involved in this game now!)! Anyways, kudos to Lazurus for sneaking around to my unprotected rear and doing some damage there!
Onwards one more time to Foreman Lazurus!


D

	04-12-2003 04:01									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Turn sent.


The Drones bow out of this game now, worms finished off the last base, got in a few more gasses on darsnan before the inevitable though

Theres 2 reloads, when i clicked turn complete and died i got the flash through of score etc but no option to save and the game closed. I looked for a save and saw an usual autosave so i loaded that to check i was sending the right thing,again got the score flash through but this time i got the "good im done now go away" screen, clicked the top first thinking it would ask to save before it closed, it didnt, thus explaining the second reload where i stayed, clicked turn complete for the second time and the password screen for flubber came up with the save and exit option.
First time dying hence the not knowing what to do ... i don't like dying

btw Herc, Darsnan has emptied several bases so i couldn't gas them, quickly drop those troops in


Oh well, Farewell people, good luck with the rest of the game
*wanders off to find another pbem to fill the void

	04-12-2003 04:46									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks for playing Lazerus and the reasoning.

	05-12-2003 10:52									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks for filling in Lazerus-- I know it can be tough to be a a replacement and your participation was appreciated

2240 on to hercules

	13-12-2003 19:51									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

hello-- Is hercules away ??

	13-12-2003 20:34									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I received the turn Thursday. Will play tonight.


D

	15-12-2003 07:58									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Turn 2241 to Darsnan

	16-12-2003 23:24									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

2242 to hercules


Headline news

The univesity sent a strongly worded diplomatic message to the Peacemakers, indicating the UNiversity's strong distaste for nuclear weapons. The Peacemaker's acquisistion of nuclear weapons will once again expand the nuclear club to two nations. The Drone nation was eradicated when they failed to heed warnings about the threat posed to others by their increased nuclear arsenal .The Cycon nation has had a nuclear weapon for a number of years but has heeded university requests that the weapon not be brought inot range of key university facilities.

Headline news has also learned that the university itself has a set of plans for a nuclear weapon and a team of scientists preparing a production facility. An unamed source indicated " we really don't want to build these monstrosities but cannot afford to be the only nation without one"

An official spokesman denied that a university nuclear production was in the current plans stating " WE have no nuclear weapons nor are we currently producing any or planning to produce any. Our policy is to seek disarmament, not join a nuclear arms race". The spokesman reiterated this as the official university policy despite being bombarded with questions relating to evidence that the university is preparing to test its own nuclear device.

	20-12-2003 12:52									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Mabb- turn received and played-- 2243 to hercules

	22-12-2003 20:32									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Turn 2243 to Darsnan


The Peacekeepers started their nuclear programm as a response to the late Drone leader's PB production. The authorities have invested a considerable amount of time an money on this project and would not wish to abandon the project when it is so near to completion. Nor has the project been rushed.

But of course we will look to place it in a secure base so that it causes less concern. A side benefit of building a PB it seems, is that one doesn't have to build prototypes when new technology is discovered.

	22-12-2003 20:46									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So a PB serves means no prototyping-- I did not know that . ..