18-11-2003 07:43									#1
	What do we think of Temple of Elemental Evil Increase Your PM Length

Heya, folks.

I was wondering if any of you around here have played this recent RPG...

I've seen some screenies and I kind of liked them. Plus, the reviews were great, but I have learned not to give much weight to them.

I am not a big fan of "action RPG's", like Diablo, but prefer more quest-oriented ones. I think I haven't really played a good RPG since Fallout. Any way, I was wondering if maybe it's about time I got back into RPG's and maybe that ToEE would be the one to get me back in. But to decide on that, I need more opinions: how's the story in the game? How are the quests? What's the ratio of fighting to exploring? And such. That and personal opinions are quite welcome.

	18-11-2003 07:51									#2
	Got spare money?

I haven't played it, because I stayed away from it after hearing bad reviews from players when it was first released. I'm told that it's pretty much hack'n'slash, aswell.

	18-11-2003 07:59									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Would those be real-life friends or on some site? And if the latter - which? I'm asking because the couple of my friends that actually played it are saying it's great. And then when I look at player reviews on Gamespot, only one of, like 17, is 4.6 out of ten. All the others are above 8.5... So, I pretty much haven't seen any bad reviews so far. Just having my own doubts though.

I like the fact that fighting is turn-based, but the demo doesn't really give a feel for the story and quality of quests, so I am not sure.

	18-11-2003 08:16									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I might be interested, but I haven't seen it.

I take it there is no demo?

I don't doubt many players like this game. Though I have heard of some bugs with the game. But the question is are these players action or more quest/role-playing orientated? We all know there is a difference between games like diablo2 and fallout or baldur's gate 2 or planescape:torment.

although I like all 3 of those games. I do like some action type rpg's. actually Diablo 1 and 2 are the pretty much the only one's I like . Blizzard can make good games.

I didn't like Pool of Radiance at all, I didn't buy it, but my brother did. Pathetic implementation of 3E rules that was. And it was a very linear action game I believe.

I didn't buy dungeon siege either. But I may get that as the exp. pack and original game is bundled at a decent price it looks like. but that is another example of an action orientated rpg.

TOEE is also 3E actually 3.5E rules.

	18-11-2003 10:33									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I take it there is no demo?

quote: Originally posted by Vovan the demo doesn't really give a feel for the story

http://www.us.atari.com/games/greyh...evil_pc_action/

Down the on the left is a link to the demo. I am not sure why it is not linked on the main site... Atari.

quote: We all know there is a difference between games like diablo2 and fallout or baldur's gate 2 or planescape:torment

Yup. Exactly why I am reluctant about this particular game. I'm much into the quest-oriented RPG's, but the action ones, especially like Diablo, just don't float my boat.

	18-11-2003 12:38									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

My friend got it and 3 of us pretty much liked it. I got quite near the end when it bugged both of my saves simultainiously, so I put it away and waited for a patch. Theres some replayability in the form of ironman and going solo. I found character development to be highly enjoyable, much more so than normal due to the feats system. I made a monster whirlwind reach fighter, and experience of development could carry over to PnP.

I followed the plot to a degree, but often got frustrated as I couldnt work it out. I could never tell if I couldnt do the quest due to my ineptitude or because it was bugged. The quests are mostly concentrated in the two towns, but there are a few other plot things in the temple itself. All that said, the turn based combat really appealed to me, and it didnt feel diablo-ish at all.

Get the demo if you havent already. 6 hours is not to be sniffed at.

	18-11-2003 16:40									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ok, I rushed out and bought it when new so....

GOOD POINTS :

The tactical combat is fun.
The graphics are pretty tasty.
There's some lovely enemies (giant frogs, anyone?)
The game sticks very closely to "offical" 3.5ed D6D rules.

BAD POINTS :

The game is pretty lacking storywise. There's this temple of elemental evil, and if your're good the you have to crash through it and kill everyone. If you're evil you have to crash through it and kill nearly everyone, to show how evil you are. Then you can join the evil temple. YAY! There's a few sub-quests, but they are very short and pointless.
The game is SMALL. There's one big dungeon and one small one, two small towns and a couple of outdoor areas that are not needed. Takes about 10-15 hours.
The game is easy. Very easy. Once your characters get off level one, they start to kick arse very soon. The ability to find two totally over-the-top good weapons that will kill gods and demons kinda makes every fight go your way. (Spoiler : two swords that always hit, do masses of damage, and if YOU are hit damage the enemy that hit you. I mean they ALWAYS hit.)
The game is filled with small bugs, crashes, lags, things that don't work like they should...
Crafting items means you can make your über-party even more über.

OVERALL :

The combat is so good that it cancels out the terrible storyline. The lovely graphics make up for the silly bugs. Role-playing this game ain't. Its a D&D fantasy combat simulator. So overall, I'd say it was fairly average. I'd only buy it if you REALLY have to get every D&D game, oterwise wait till the price drops.

BTW, it is possible to complete the game using the demo. 6 hours is plenty if you know where to go. You CAN complete the game in less than 1 hour, using a solo level-one rogue and avoiding combat. Silly, eh?

-Jam

	19-11-2003 13:02									#8
	Got spare money?

How closely does it follow the original TOEE?

	19-11-2003 14:11									#9
	Suffering from ads?

Far too closely.

That is, if you have the original module, then this will have no surprises, nor will you need a walkthrough.

If this is a good thing? Well, the module was great when I played it back in 198x, but its a bit dated now, basically a dungeon crawl with all kinds of unrelated critters mashed in next to each other for no reason.

-Jam

	20-11-2003 01:17									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

It was a bit dated then.

For the longest time there was just T1, The village of Hommlet, and it seemed that the rest of the promised series would never come out. It finally came out in that softcover all-in-one format the Slaver/Giants/Drow series were reissued in.

By that time, the I series had already gone through Ravenloft and The Desert of Desolation -- heck, even that miscarried return to Ravenloft, I10, was probably out.

Nevertheless, it was fun subjecting my brother and friends to it.

	20-11-2003 03:15									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ah, fond memories

If you still have the book, check up on Scather and Fragrach. Just smell that cheese

-Jam

	23-11-2003 02:46									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I love the new engine, which makes it possible to do the 3e combat. The actual dungeon itself is not brilliant, but that is because the original module was like that. Had Turbine had the time and permission to enhance it more it would have been a better game. Nevertheless, with the fan mods installed its a damn good dungeon romp.

	23-11-2003 18:21									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Its not, its a terrible unstructured kill everything hack of a dungeon romp. Sure the fighting is good, but there SHOULD be more to a D&D game...

Apart from the combat, this is real step back from the depth of Troika's last RPG

-Jam

	23-11-2003 23:55									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If you read the module, Jam, you'll see its a 99.99% faithful conversion of the published pnp Temple of Elemental Evil. That is the problem.

Troika were paid for a perfect implementation of it with not much extra added then told to remove the adult storylines that they layered on top of it at the last minute. Of course that makes it less colourful than Troika's own world. Still, as kill-everything dungeons go, the temple can't be faulted much imho.

	24-11-2003 03:59									#15
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is there an editor?

can it be modded easily?

	24-11-2003 13:57									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: If you read the module, Jam, you'll see its a 99.99% faithful conversion of the published pnp Temple of Elemental Evil. That is the problem.

I know, that's what I said And the Co8 patch restores the "adult content" - that is the brothel - and the official release ain't missing much my having it cut.

Why Troika decided to do this creaky old module I'll never know. Its not even a good for a Gygax module. But I suppose its one of the ones that everyone has played, so its a bit "cult" ?

quote: Still, as kill-everything dungeons go, the temple can't be faulted much imho.

Well, imho, a dungeon which has harpys in one room, stirges next door, bugbears wandering around, wild trolls, ogres, giants, ettins, 4 clerical factions, lamias, fungus, banshees, skeleton gnolls and god knows what else just pile'd around willy-nilly certainly has a few faults. Don't the guys that own the place ever consider cleaning up and chucking out all the allsorted dangerous beasts? They are all so obviously placed for an adventuring party to fight But that's Gygax for you

Having said that, fighting them was kinda fun Good fun But then it was over

quote: is there an editor?

No

quote: can it be modded easily?

If you can write and compile code, yes. Otherwise see above.

-Jam

	24-11-2003 15:59									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There was more cut than that - all the kids were cut plus the storylines that related to them (the old crap about not being able to hurt kids that seems to affect some games but pass others like BG by unscathed).

The temple is a mess of different monster types, its true, but I rationalise that as the different priests competing to get monstrous allies of all kinds working for them, having various spiders, rats and snakes around for use in their rituals or as components etc. It makes it a more fun adventure than 100 rooms full of orcs and ogres too

The Co8 guys did a lot of modding in a very short time, but its definitely something to leave to people with the time and expertise. I'd be surprised if there is something you would want that they haven't already discussed implementing and decided for or against it.

	25-11-2003 01:30									#18
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

well Europe has those rules about not being able to kill kids in video games.

This is why Fallout had to have 2 different versions in the U.S. and europe. The europe version had no kids whatsoever. Made it difficult to do a few quests.

In BG2 I don't think you could kill the kids could you? Though I never tried.

	26-11-2003 00:12									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I remember the first time I encountered the ability to kill children -- in any game -- in Fallout 2.

I had decided to eliminate the two evil trader brothers in the first town, and went at it with my man, whats-his-face. I had started the attack, when suddenly a kid ran in, for no apparent reason. I ignored him, until whats-his-face turned and attacked the kid.

He took several blows, crying and bleeding and whimpering and all those oh-so-disturbing messages, and whats-his-face just kept on, and nothing I could do could stop him. In the end, I just sat, genuinely horrified, reading the message that I was now branded a child-killer, lowest of the low.

I quit out, went back to a previous save, and decided I didn't need to eliminate the brothers, after all. Meanwhile, I figured out how to put my barbarian buddy on a shorter leash, and was very careful about starting anything after that.

	26-11-2003 01:31									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The kids weren't cut, just replaced in some cases with adult models, and called "teenagers" How about that "kid" in Hommlet you have to try to get to like you?

-Jam

	26-11-2003 19:58									#21
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Several child toons are gone. The woodcutter has a child whose health you can mention but the quest is ripped out, as is any interaction with his wife. The stonecutter asks you if his kids are still playing in the yard, but then nothing happens when you respond because they and the quest are gone. There are other places which imply young children that are not there. I guess the teenager fell just outside the cutoff point.

	26-11-2003 23:09									#22
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So Grumbold, I have to say I get the impression that you think this was 40 quid well spent. I've played it through three times, and I can't imagine doing so again in the near future. I'm really hoping they re-use the engine, fix the bugs, allow character progression to level 20+ and make a game the size and scope of BG, or even IWD would be an improvement. We know Troika can do it, just look at Arcanum. BUT, if they just do "Against the Giants" then I personally won't buy it.

-Jam

	26-11-2003 23:38									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It was a reasonable buy, especially post patching, in that I got 50-60 hours of entertainment out of it and the best ever combat system in a D&D game so far. Did I expect more from Troika? Of course.

If they did Against the Giants "vanilla" without any good storyline then I wouldn't buy it full price either. The modules are just too thin on plot.

Last edited by Grumbold on 26-11-2003 at 23:48

	27-11-2003 02:47									#24
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I'm just comparing my 50 hours against the 500+ hours (at least) I've got out of BG2.

-Jam

	07-12-2003 23:43									#25
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Tajaus, read this thread.

	08-12-2003 06:24									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In Belgium there's none of the bullcrap of not hurting children.. well not in my copies anyway

everybody can get whacked! woohoo!