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Jon Miller
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yah DinoDoc
it is primarily an income thing
Jon Miller
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Caligastia
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East asians probably suffer the most thanks to AA. My Chinese co-worker has many friends and relatives whose kids were kept out of top schools because of AA.
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:32
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quote:
what's wrong with affirmitive action |
1. although ostensibly for minorities, in reality it's only used to advance the causes of blacks, hispanics, and occasionally, women. other minorities, most notably asians, are ignored because somehow, we're too "white", so it's not that we hit a glass ceiling, we're just too short to reach it.
2. because it's not really interested in promoting equality for all minority groups, it's really just a benefits program that sponsors specific ethnic groups at the expense of others.
3. why the hell is it called "affirmative action"? what's the sense in that term?
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
i don't like affirmative action. by definition, it's supposed to help minorities.
asians are right now one of the smallest minorities, but we never get aa. we get everything else, including the glass ceiling, but... no aa. we're too "successful".
if we keep affirmative action the way it is, then call it what it is. get rid of this purported "it's for the minorities" bullshit if you're not going to give it to all the minorities. it's a benefits program for blacks, hispanics, and women--in short, minorities with powerful lobbies.
that said, even if they did give asians affirmative action, i'd despise it because it was race-based. if you're going to try to do something to create a colorblind society, you don't do it by focusing on color.
affirmative action based on economic strata would work far better. that way, a genius white kid who lives in a trailer park in podunk, alabama, would be allowed into a school which he'd never be able to afford, rather than some rich black kid who's merely average who lives in the posh suburbs of new york.
race-based affirmative action sucks. |
You know, Q-Cubed, Janice Rogers Brown, a black woman who is on the fast track to the Supreme Court, has argued strongly against affirmative action with almost the same words as you just used.
Ted Kennedy called her a Neanderthal.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
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Affirmative action was created by Richard Nixon during the Eisenhower administration. When he became president, he really put muscle into the concept by creating "quotas and timetables." His first objective was to desegregate the all-white trade unions. From there it spread to all businesses and universities.
Without the aggressive enforcement by Nixon, trade unions and many businesses and colleges would still be segregated.
And, of course, Nixon is a Republican whom Democrats demonize as a racist, as are all Republicans, according to them.
The status of blacks has changed dramatically since Nixon. Affirmative action for blacks may no longer be necessary. It might be time to call a halt for a number of years to see what happens without AA. If the patterns of segregation re-emerges, then we put AA back.
Also, I agree with C-Cubed that we should stop calling AA something for minorities. It is not. Europeans, after all, are a minority in California. Just one of many. AA is for blacks almost exclusively.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:32
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quote:
Originally posted by rah
While I'm not a big fan of AA, there is one fact that can't be ignored. The biggest past, current, and likely far into the future winner of AA is WHITE MALES. I've been in many large companies, and a quick review of all their executive boards show dominance by, YES you guessed it "WHITE MALES" sure the HR director is usually black or female, and there is the occasional exception in other postitions, but the business world is still dominated by WHITE MALES. I refuse to believe that the pool of capable blacks and females is so small that the current boards acurately reflect competance percentages in the population. So when the next white male bemoans how much AA has cost him, please feel free to whack him on the side of the head and correct him. The white male has and will continue to benefit from from the fact that he is a white male.
RAH
I believe no person should unfairly benefit from their sex and race. Ability should always be used to judge. ESPECIALLY for white males. |
Yea, it's about time that we off-white males are given credit for all our kick-a$$ work and given the jobs, education, dental work, erudition and possessions of silver spoon sucking golf playing executive vermin like yourself.
Q cubed makes the best points IMO, it was conceived and sold as a way to undo racism and it exists and thrives as a racial political payoff system in large part. It perpetuates racism, and for no good reason other than politicians can curry favor by attacking or defending it depending on how their district is drawn. Into the trashheap and lets bring on some objective standards.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
1. although ostensibly for minorities, in reality it's only used to advance the causes of blacks, hispanics, and occasionally, women. |
This is completely incorrect. The primary beneficeries of AA have been white women, and by extension, whites in general due to the increased opportunites and earnings of their families. Ironic, isn't it.
quote:
other minorities, most notably asians, are ignored because somehow, we're too "white", so it's not that we hit a glass ceiling, we're just too short to reach it. |
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you want AA you have to fight for it. Part of he problem is that Asians tend to over achieve getting into post-secondary education, though appranetly this hasn't translated into success in the upper eschalons of society, which remains white, male, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant. If you gota problem with racism, then you need to organize. *****ing about it won't get you anywhere.
quote:
3. why the hell is it called "affirmative action"? what's the sense in that term? |
Because simply ending de jure racism would not undo the effects of Jim Crow. If you were forced to go to inferior schools, you have no chance of being able to successfully compete against those who did. If you were never able to build a job history because no one would Black, Mexican, a woman, Catholic, etc., how do you compete against people who had a job history just for being white Protestant men? Therefore, it was seen as a way to do something affirmative to end the effects of prior racism.
Since de facto racsim is still deeply ingrained in this society, AA is still necessary.
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:32
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quote:
This is completely incorrect. The primary beneficeries of AA have been white women, and by extension, whites in general due to the increased opportunites and earnings of their families. Ironic, isn't it. |
how is it completely incorrect? i do say that women benefit from it, don't i?
quote:
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you want AA you have to fight for it. Part of he problem is that Asians tend to over achieve getting into post-secondary education, though appranetly this hasn't translated into success in the upper eschalons of society, which remains white, male, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant. If you gota problem with racism, then you need to organize. *****ing about it won't get you anywhere. |
you obviously then haven't heard of the numerous asian-american civil rights groups which get no airtime simply because we're "successful" and don't need it.
did i mention that once on politically incorrect you had some comedienne answer why the line "i love chinks" was funny to an asian-american activist (who, incidentally, was of japanese extraction)? the audience didn't give a **** about the guy.
or the groups that tried and failed to get airtime during the entire wen ho lee fiasco when every chinaman was a spy? did you hear anything about them, even when they were trying to raise hell and getting lots of support from asian-american communites?
didn't think so.
and che, you didn't answer my question as to why it's called affirmative action.
affirmative means an agreement, a "yes". an action, well, is an action. so it's a yes action. wtf is that supposed to mean?
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
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For those of you who may have not seen interview, another high point was when Chris Matthews asked Carol Moseley-Braun, "Why you think President Bush invaded Iraq?" She began to answer, then caught herself and replied, "I don't know." Matthews then said, " Oh, come on now, you must know why President Bush invaded Iraq?" Carol Moseley-Braun again replied, "I don't know." Then Chris Matthews said, " Then, how can you criticize President Bush's Iraq's policy if you don't know why he invaded Iraq?
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Caligastia
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Who has you on their list?
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Capt Dizle
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Well, the effect that AA has on me is that whenever I am in the position of hiring someone, or boosting the career of a co-worker, I bust my ass to see that a white male gets preference.
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19-11-2003 02:34
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