14-01-2001 12:09									#31
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Agreed, Dan.

That is a great idea, our_man. In addition to that, I can have technologies that when you research them, the event "changesterrain" to ocean in specific spots. Both ideas would be used. Great feedback, thank you.

	14-01-2001 17:13									#32
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You can use engineers to transform terrain into ocean like in the mps scenario. Besides that it might also be possible to make aquifers that only last for a certain amount of time. You could use a change terrain event in order to get rid of the "river" to simulate that it has run empty.

Melting the pole caps might be used to create an artificial ocean in the later game using many change terrain events as said above.

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Mathias' Civ II Page
http://members.nbci.com/thalys

	14-01-2001 20:35									#33
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Great idea, Hendrick.

	15-01-2001 17:43									#34
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I'm not sure if you had already decided on making the map of Mars only, but here are some ideas how you can realize a map that includes both Earth and Mars:

Use a giga map, where the top half of the map is Earth and the lower half is Mars (this would cause the two maps to be rather small, however). Separate the two halves by a rim of impassible terrain. There are now several possibilities for transporting units between Earth and Mars:
1. use paradropping units as spacecrafts (which can drop from earth over the impassible terrain).
2. let each civ start out with a very small "landing site" kind of city on Mars with an airport, and let each civ have one such spaceport on Earth. Now each civ can use these airports as launch sites to travel between the Earth and Mars.

One problem with the second option is that having a city on Mars will mean that city can build exactly the same things as the cities on Earth.
In any case where the map is both Earth and Mars, you can't make any distinctions between the Earth or Mars-based cities (including the city style).

	16-01-2001 10:43									#35
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I love that idea, Mercator.

One thing I could do to distinguish the actual graphic of the cities is make the cities on Earth walled, and not allow the improvement of "city walls" at all during the game.

People just can't go off selling the city walls on Earth.

	18-01-2001 23:07									#36
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If someone could possibly make the top half of the map being the world, a round map of course, I would make the bottom. Earth geography isn't my best when it comes to making maps.

Also, how exactly do you make impassible terrain?

	19-01-2001 23:02									#37
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*BUMP* Anyone still here?

	19-01-2001 23:40									#38
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I'm still here! I'm just very occupied with confernce management business...

Impassable Terrain: (taken right out of Advanced Scenario Design by Leon Marrick, HTML online Version on Mercators Civ II Site)

quote: Units that cannot move can serve as impassable terrain (with some designs), or fixed defenses (difficult-to-conquer mountains, etc). Note that any unit that cannot move can complete no action; if it is unfortified at the beginning of the game, it will stay that way. If not in a city, an AI player will immediately unfortify these units (it tries to move them), so do not give human players an advantage by fortifying them. If they start out in a city, these units can travel on ships between ports. Impassable terrain (available only in some game designs) If your game has no units that can attack air units, you can include impassable terrain: create a unit similar to the following (name), nil, 1, 0.,0, 0a,40d, 10h,10f, 5,0, 1, (impossible tech), 000000000000000 what this does is make an unbuildable air unit. Sadly, the computer is so deranged that any unit that can attack air units will attack any air unit, no matter how tough, blocking its way to a city. I field tested this idea with stealth fighters, only to see the AI make constant suicide runs. change its icon to that of some terrain and make its shield as inconspicuous as possible (see section 8a). place them where you want impassable terrain you may want to alter the message in the game.txt file that appears when a unit is told it cannot attack air units

I hope this helps...


------------------
Mathias' Civ II Page
http://members.nbci.com/thalys
[This message has been edited by Hendrik the Great (edited January 19, 2001).]

	20-01-2001 00:44									#39
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Yes, it does. Thank you!

Maybe Mercator would design the world map half of the giga map?

I think it should be divided by the length, of course.

	22-01-2001 17:34									#40
	Got spare money?

I might, but I'm kinda busy and haven't done much civing or mapmaking lately. It might take a while, so if anyone else applies for the job...

By the way, a slight problem: having Mars and Earth on the same map means that they all have to share the 11 terrain types. Terrain information should therefor be very simplistic (since you probably have only about 4 or 5 terraintypes available for the Earth).

	23-01-2001 01:41									#41
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Thanks Mercator. If you can't, its fine. I understand being busy and what not.

Good point. I'll figure out something. Because the map will be pretty small of Earth, the terrain can be a little simplistic on both sides. I'll come up with something, like I said. Thanks for the ideas, by the way.

	24-01-2001 03:31									#42
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If you use a fitting graphic, you could probably have the terrain you use for deserts on Earth be one of the terrains for Mars too.

	24-01-2001 12:31									#43
	Increase Your PM Length

Has anyone played Kestrel's "Escape from Sol"? It's a very well done scenario starting on Mars. It's a Test of Time scenario which anticipates much of the discussion here. It includes Mars, the moon, Earth and Alpha Centauri. It's available on the Cradle of Civilization site.

	25-01-2001 05:51									#44
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I just got a National Geographic in the mail today, and what a coincidence, it has a huge map of Mars. Great for the making of both the map and the scenario. Polaris and whoever is making the map, I hope you both get National Geographic, because the map is great!

	25-01-2001 06:41									#45
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I used to. Maybe its on the National Geographic website.

I have several maps though, with all kinds of goodies on them. I'm curious about this one though.

Geography Dan getting National Geographic. I'm not surprised.

	25-01-2001 07:00									#46
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It's one of those huge pullout maps. Its really detailed. I wonder if you could buy a copy of the magazine somewhere, because I doubt an online version would do it justice.


(Actually I don't get it, my dad does. I'm just the one who usually reads it. )

	27-01-2001 19:56									#47
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Hey, here's an interesting link:
http://web.mit.edu/mmm/www/summary.html

	28-01-2001 02:15									#48
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Thats very interesting. Thanks.

Mercator, would there be a way to take the world map, enlarge it, and put it so its 1/2 of a giga map, and then I can hand-draw the Mars map?

	29-01-2001 18:43									#49
	Tired of ads?

You can use my very own MapEdit (you can find it in Apolyton's database or on my homepage). It can extend/resize maps etc.
But by the way, weren't you making the scenario for FW? If that's the case, you can't have a gigantic map, only an oversized one (surface up to 10922).

	29-01-2001 21:56									#50
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I haven't decided on FW or MGE. Hmmm...

That utility is great; thanks.

	30-01-2001 04:35									#51
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Please make it FW so that those of us who are MPG-less can play your scenario...

	03-02-2001 05:33									#52
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BUMP

	04-02-2001 21:42									#53
	Got spare money?

The scenario will be in Fantastic Worlds. Units will arrive from Earth via events. The map will be a standard large map; the largest I can get it to be in Fantastic Worlds.