19-11-2003 16:28									#1
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I thought the new rule with bombardment was that if you are bombarding a city that has units in it, it will ALWAYS attack those units first. Meaning that you have no chance of damaging infastructure in the city as long as their are units in it. Well, this has held true throughout all of my C3C playing so far. However, yesterday when I was attacking a French city that had 2 completely healthy units in it I destroyed a Library with my Trebuchet. Then on the next turn with the same 2 completely healthy units I destroyed their Forbidden Palace. I might have misunderstood the changes made to C3C, but I thought there was no way under those circumstances infastructure could be destroyed.

	19-11-2003 17:26									#2
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This is strange... has anyone been running any tests??

	19-11-2003 18:14									#3
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Check out the bug thread - it has been reported there bombardment first took down the Palace, then a Temple, then the Great Wall with no hp damage to any defender!

It seems apparent that there is some check that is done first with bombardment - perhaps if there is a Palace, FP, Walls or a Wonder there that improvements are targetted first always, otherwise units first always.

	19-11-2003 18:19									#4
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Did you have the great wall TW? One of the suggestions was that since e.g catapult bombardment still aims at city walls first (before units), the great wall is introducing some kind of bug where the bombardment looks to destory the city walls which aren't actually there, and so trashes something else in the city. If you don't have the GW, then it is worth mentioning it in the bugs thread seperately.

	19-11-2003 18:41									#5
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Just checked this in a small test - if the city has Walls, whether due to individual Walls or the Great Wall, improvements ARE targetted first until the Walls are gone. Thus if it is a city relying on the GW, every improvement in it will be eventually killed BEFORE targetting units. In my test, cities lost the Palace and Pyramids where there was no source for the Walls to be targetted.

BUG!

	19-11-2003 18:45									#6
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How does something like that get through testing?? Was it a last minute change, or did they forget/neglect to do some negative tests? Or what?

Add this one to the list of "must haves" before I'm really satisfied with this game.

	19-11-2003 18:57									#7
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Interesting additional note.... in my highly non-realistic test I found out that (in a PBEM at least), if you take down the Palace then the city that HAD the palace still functions as if it had the Palace, although the culture you would get from the Palace is no longer there.

WEIRD!!!! :lol;

	20-11-2003 00:25									#8
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quote: if the city has Walls, whether due to individual Walls or the Great Wall, improvements ARE targetted first until the Walls are gone.

Checking to make sure the city I attacked did have walls in it. Personally I think this only makes walls in a city a detrement to the city. I know when defending one of my city's I would rather have my units lose one damage than lose my FP or a library. I'm thinking I might just disable the Great Wall and City Walls being built until this can be solved by a patch.

Also, MrWhereItsAt, your last test on the Palace I think was discovered a long time ago in original civ3. I don't think that the code for it can be changed easily, and that's why it's still there. Which then would mean ever rebuilding a palace when destroyed is useless outside of the culture aspect of it. Hmmm...

	20-11-2003 00:41									#9
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins I'm thinking I might just disable the Great Wall and City Walls being built until this can be solved by a patch.

Walls work properly. It's only the great wall that messes up things.

	20-11-2003 00:59									#10
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quote: Walls work properly.

Well, I was going by what MrWhereItsAt said. That whether it's due to individual walls or the Great Wall. I know myself I only have proof of it being the Great Wall, though. If it is only the Great Wall, then I would simply take out the adding of city walls in the cities and reducing the price of it significantly, or take out the Great Wall completely like I mentioned previously.

	20-11-2003 01:01									#11
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Ah, another player runs into this (rather funny, to me) bug. Welcome!

-Arrian

	20-11-2003 01:50									#12
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This is the first I'm hearing of this bug. Interesting.

	20-11-2003 02:34									#13
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Is it that bad?

I like getting rid of walls.

	20-11-2003 02:58									#14
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The only thing good about not being able to buy C3C now is the fact that when I manage to buy it, there will be a patch to fix these things.

	20-11-2003 03:42									#15
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I can imagine that is one bugger of a bug to fix...I suppose they would have to apply it to any improvement conferred by a wonder.

	20-11-2003 07:36									#16
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The solution, of course, is to go back to having the Great Wall NOT give Walls to all your cities. However they wanted to make the GW more attractive to build, so the idea would then be to find an additional way to make it so... Perhaps it could make all your towns treated as the next level up, as the Palace does (ie towns have the value of cities, for instance). This is the same as giving them free Walls.

How hard would this be?

	20-11-2003 07:40									#17
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Doesn't the editor say "Doubles City Defenses"?

Why don't they make it so it literally doubles city defenses (and not just walls).

	20-11-2003 07:50									#18
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Well what if someone here tries it?

	20-11-2003 07:53									#19
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt The solution, of course, is to go back to having the Great Wall NOT give Walls to all your cities. However they wanted to make the GW more attractive to build, so the idea would then be to find an additional way to make it so... Perhaps it could make all your towns treated as the next level up, as the Palace does (ie towns have the value of cities, for instance). This is the same as giving them free Walls. How hard would this be?

wow. as i understand things, that would be a great way to throttle your own civ if you play feudalism.

	20-11-2003 09:02									#20
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Good point - has anyone tried that editor function Louis suggested?