19-11-2003 18:13									#1
	British Museum Top Ten Treasures Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/topten/topten.html


If you go to the link you’ll find a site detailing what the conservators and experts at the British Museum felt were the top ten treasures in their keeping.

I saw the programme about this on Sunday and was a bit surprised, until I found out that they related only to objects or finds located within the United Kingdom, not properties sourced from abroad.

I was wondering what any non-U.K. apolytoners think of the selection, and what do they consider to be the top ten exhibits in their country’s keeping? I suspect Americans might think of the Wright Brothers pioneering aeroplane, an Apollo capsule, a copy of the Declaration of Independence, and so on. The criteria the Museum staff used seemed to be based more on what the objects could tell us about the people who used them, or the times in which they were used, which is why wooden postcards written by the garrison at Hadrian's Wall are at number one, and not some fabulous gold or silver treasure.

	19-11-2003 19:21									#2
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/topten/topten.html I was wondering what any non-U.K. apolytoners think of the selection, and what do they consider to be the top ten exhibits in their country’s keeping? I suspect Americans might think of the Wright Brothers pioneering aeroplane, an Apollo capsule, a copy of the Declaration of Independence, and so on. The criteria the Museum staff used seemed to be based more on what the objects could tell us about the people who used them, or the times in which they were used, which is why wooden postcards written by the garrison at Hadrian's Wall are at number one, and not some fabulous gold or silver treasure.

Are we ruling out fine arts - i would tend to thing of the Museum of Modern Arts Picasso's, the Impressionists at the Bostons Museum of Fine Arts, the Greek Vases and old masters paintings at the Met, the post impressionists at the Baltimore Museum of Art, etc. We've got A LOT more in the US than Americana.

(edit - checking the link, it seems the site you list includes not the most important things the British Museum, but the most important British Treasures at the museum. Hmm. Im not sure theres real equivalent in the US - a literate society since the start of European settlement, most artifacts of less historical value and more sentimental value - a list of US historical treasures tends to be a list of symbols - the stuff that gives insight into life tends to be of interest more to professional archaeologists.)


Edit again - checking the link, and rereading your post.
I need more coffee this AM.

	19-11-2003 20:32									#3
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A quick tip to molly about posting in OT - when you're providing a link to a chart of any kind, posting what is at No 1 immediately after isn't going to make many people click on it and then comment!

I have a soft spot for the Viking chessmen I have to admit, and they'd go to the top of any chart I'd compile, but my criteria (duke reckons they're pretty cool) are very different from those used here. I also appreciate that the experts are trying to select a range of artefacts here. Just because you have two perfect examples of Viking ironwork in the collection does not mean that both should go in, to the possible loss of a lesser example of Celtic craftsmanship, for example. These artefacts should give an idea of the breadth of the collection as well as the quality.

	19-11-2003 20:40									#4
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Top ten? I don't even know where to begin. I suppose the terracotta soldiers will be one of them, make that entire dig to be one of them. There are lots of important discoveries too, like potteries of very early cultures, Tung Wang's wall paintings, etc.

	19-11-2003 20:47									#5
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I'd go with the Elgin Marbles that are staying where they are.

	19-11-2003 20:54									#6
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My grandfather's ring is the most valuable thing sentimentally that I posses. For Greece, I can't say, it's an immense task.

	19-11-2003 21:00									#7
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quote: I suspect Americans might think of the Wright Brothers pioneering aeroplane, an Apollo capsule, a copy of the Declaration of Independence, and so on.

Yeah, you pegged me here. I was thinking also of the first transistor, laser, and microprocessor that resides at the Smithsonian. My wife and I also went to see the Edison factory up in Menlo Park (first light bulb, first record player), and the historical value of that collection must be priceless as well.

	19-11-2003 21:20									#8
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Paul Revere's work in silver is amazing art and a true american treasure.

	19-11-2003 21:56									#9
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Tiffany glass collection at the Met?

	19-11-2003 22:56									#10
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 My grandfather's ring is the most valuable thing sentimentally that I posses.

That's so Greek. Pickled or freeze-dried?

	19-11-2003 22:58									#11
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The ring not the finger. That comment was clearly a bumming deprivation syndrome effect.

	20-11-2003 03:38									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'd go with the Elgin Marbles that are staying where they are.

No, the point is they have to originate in, or have been found in, the British Isles. Similarly if you were American, your list would have to be of things produced in America, or found in America- not things sourced from outside the country- which rules out the huge art collections at the Getty, Chicago, the Metropolitan, the Cloisters, and so on.

The experts at the British Museum chose things that told us about the users and the times they lived in, some of which were incidentally extremely valuable. So the Sutton Hoo find doesn't just tell us that the person buried was Anglo-Saxon, but also tells us of his power, tells us about trading links (the raw garnet used in the jewellery came from India), tells us about Saxon culture, and so on. I would have put Hoo first, but they chose the Vindolanda tablets.

My choices for American items would be some recent things, such as the Wright Brothers' aeroplane, the Apollo 11 module, either the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, a Model T Ford, things that reflect the social history of the United States as well as being historic in and of themselves. It's when you get into more contentious areas of social history that the problems would start- anything from the slavery era, from the Civil War, anything to reflect large scale immigration, anything from pre-Columbian times, or the Indian wars.

	20-11-2003 03:52									#13
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I personally liked the Easter Island stone ehad the most. Forgot to take a pic with me on it though

	20-11-2003 04:51									#14
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I think that if the Greek, Egyptian and what have you things are returned from the british museum, then the museum itself will have an amazingly few objects to demonstrate...

	20-11-2003 04:58									#15
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but why should they do that? Greeks failed to defend their cultural heritage so they don't deserve it.

	20-11-2003 05:05									#16
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Kind of like when the Germans couldn't protect their ladies when the Russians came marching to town eh?
Actually the Parthenon was intact up to the beggining of the 19th century untill Elgin tore the statues down with hammers.

	20-11-2003 05:33									#17
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I thought he bought them from some Greek bloke. You mean he got ripped off?

	20-11-2003 05:35									#18
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Well you thought wrong. He made a deal with the Turkish Pasha of Athens to take them down. Parhenon got ripped off not elgin. Funny who the destroyers of one of the most precious temples of antiquity are eh? well byron likes to think its just the scotts, being really engilsh i guess.

	20-11-2003 05:43									#19
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Pish. Clearly Locutus should be on that list.

Attachment: 1.jpg
This has been downloaded 33 time(s).

	20-11-2003 05:44									#20
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Germany on the other hand has no treasures. We had the amber chamber but the rooskies burned it.

	20-11-2003 05:45									#21
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I saw good bye lenin

	20-11-2003 05:49									#22
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Well at least in the British Museum they're safe from all that pollution you have in Athens. Here in Oxford they have to keep cleaning the surfaces of the old stonework in the center of town every few years. It eventually gets so screwed up that it has to be replaced.

	20-11-2003 05:51									#23
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Actually you destroyed them further by bleaching them.
Also it is impossible to mount them back at the parthenon the way they were before they were hammered down.

	20-11-2003 05:53									#24
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Hey IW,

Was it you or Locutus who took the pictures of the Elgin Marbles when we were at the BM ?

	20-11-2003 06:05									#25
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Kind of like when the Germans couldn't protect their ladies when the Russians came marching to town eh? Actually the Parthenon was intact up to the beggining of the 19th century untill Elgin tore the statues down with hammers.

It would be nice if we could keep ill-informed petty nationalist insults out of this.

From the Greek Ministry of Culture site:

‘The Turks used the Parthenon as a powder magazine when the Venetians, under Admiral Morosini, sieged the Acropolis in 1687. One of the Venetian bombs fell on the Parthenon and caused a tremendous explosion that destroyed a great part of the monument which had been preserved in a good condition until then.’

http://www.culture.gr/2/21/toc/index.html

http://www.greatbuildings.com/build..._Parthenon.html

The British Museum’s holdings reflect the history of the peoples that live/d in the British Isles as well as the history of the British Empire and all humankind. Even without any non-British artefacts, there would still be Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Celtic, Roman, Romano-British, Anglo-Saxon, Viking/Norse, and Norman artefacts, let alone items from the Middle Ages, the Elizabethan era and later. One thing the United Kingdom isn’t short of, is history.

http://www.info-world.com/elgin.marbles/times/

I suggest if you want to start a thread about restoring the Parthenon frieze then please do so.

	20-11-2003 06:09									#26
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Venetians didnt destroy the unique facade of parthenon though did they? (thank god)

eggy did when there wasnt even a war.

http://www.museum-security.org/Will...s%20Marbles.htm

http://www.museum-security.org/elginmarbles.html

as for what the british museum would have without the greek egyptian and other stuff it "borrowed", anyone can see their grandiose "importance" I think.

i wonder who's being a nationalist (while not even english)

	20-11-2003 06:29									#27
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seen that movie too

	20-11-2003 06:30									#28
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For those of you who might not know what I'm referrring to, there was a Poly meet in London last August. The Pub we met in was just around the corner from the British Museum and a few of us, before we got into the serious drinking, did a tour. There were quite a few pictures posted here but, since then Markos has done something to the database which means that, at least for me, they don't show up.

@ Molly Bloom: Sorry about this meandering, but when you bring up the British Museum, it's hard to stay on topic. It's absolutely amazing what they've got there.

	20-11-2003 06:30									#29
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Venetians didnt destroy the unique facade of parthenon though did they? (thank god) eggy did when there wasnt even a war. http://www.museum-security.org/Will...s%20Marbles.htm http://www.museum-security.org/elginmarbles.html as for what the british museum would have without the greek egyptian and other stuff it "borrowed", anyone can see their grandiose "importance" I think. i wonder who's being a nationalist (while not even english)

As I said, If you want to start a thread about the restitution of the Parthenon frieze, feel free. Just do it in a separate thread.

Ill-informed comments about artefacts from British history and the purpose of the British Museum notwithstanding, you also had to make an insulting remark about Germans and German history. I'm glad Ecthelion didn't respond in kind.

As for not being 'English'- no, I'm not. I'm British. And I haven't succumbed to the temptation of making any petty nationalist slurs.

The so-called 'bleaching' of the frieze:

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/parthenon/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/543362.stm

	20-11-2003 06:32									#30
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btw, if the English had a deal with local rulers, it's perfectly OK.