04-02-2001 03:14									#1
	Flag problem Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was wondering if anyone might know where I can find early medieval flags of the Empire of Charlemagne, then "France" and "Germany" between 800 and 1000 AD.
Some Anglo-Saxon flags wouldn't be bad either. They don't seem to have had any so what else can I do about this?

Did the Vikings have flags or not? I read this and that and I would like to know for sure now.

I already checked out some flag sites on the net but so far it has not been that sucessfull...

Any help would be welcome!

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	04-02-2001 12:46									#2
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Some heraldic animals used in flags.

Vikings: the black crow of Odhinn (black on white field ).
Saxons: a dragon ( red on coloured field ).

Check out www.elisena.com ... the research links are a lot useful... and tartan's section is amazing!

	05-02-2001 23:31									#3
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Thanks for your hints on the viking and saxon flags Prometheus! It's a start.

Elisena is a great site and I found a lot of interesting stuff although not much I could use for this scenario.

But a great thank you anyways!

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	07-02-2001 13:28									#4
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You do know that there where several viking nations?
Therefore there where probably several flags to.
Also isn't Denmarks flag the oldest one in the world?

	07-02-2001 20:35									#5
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Vikings: I personaly think, the vikings havenīt use flaggs up to 1000 AC (when they become christians). The used some other things in my opinion. But its fine if you use the black raven for one of the viking nations ("Norway"?). For the other you could take the norman flag used by William the Conquerer 1066: two golden lions on red ground. Or some other norman flag.

Angel-Saxons:
Remember Merlin: Pendragon (Red Dragon) foghts against White Dragon. That means:
- Saxons: White Dragon
- Britons: Red Dragon (like the welsh flag)
Alfred, King of Wessex (871-899) used a golden Dragon as far I know. Harald fights against William the Conqueror 1066 by using a Red Dragon again.

Empire of Charlemagne: As far I know, there is no known flagg used by the Empire of Charlemagne. But the City of Paris used in 885 a "large saffron-coloured banner with large indentations carried by a double lance."... May be, you could use the William the Conquerers flag (look above) here. But sure, itīs a norman flag...
If you find nothing more, you could take a White Cross on red field (for "Germany", like the danish flag today) and White Cross on blue field ("France"). It is not historical correct, but these are the earlyest flaggs I know for this "nations".

Hope you find some more detailed informations. If not, I have somewere images some of these flags, I could send it to you. (if I find it again).

AroSch

	07-02-2001 23:27									#6
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Sorry, Aro, the viking flag i described was used at Clontarft, 1014... but king Harald "Hārfagri" used "... standards..." on his fleet' ships. But these could also metal vessels, like roman eagles, for what i know.

BTW the Irish vikings at Clontarft came from Norway.
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited February 07, 2001).]