21-11-2003 04:12									#91
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Actually che, they'd probably be against it. They'd rather have their own gauges and part sizes so their competitors couldn't sell to those companies. It was Congress that decided on a standard gauge to prevent company rail lines that didn't match.

	21-11-2003 04:13									#92
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I dunno. A lot of those regs loked like maintenence and upkeep, so that stuff has to be replaced more frequently.

	21-11-2003 04:18									#93
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The few upkeep stuff may be the best regulations there, to prevent broken parts to be used until the trains come off the tracks. I doubt they were pushed by the companies. Most likely after an accident or two, public outcry did it.

	21-11-2003 04:48									#94
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The regs were originally voluntary guidelines needed for the interchange of equipment among private firms. The government expanded them, made them mandatory, and can and will bust you for violations. OSHA regs are similarly detailed, and have similarly little effect.

One side effect is that regs like this freeze technology. For example, US railroad signal boxes use vacuum tubes adn relays, because it would literally take an Act of Congress to allow the use of integrated circuits.



And yes, Che, its because I respect you.

	21-11-2003 05:00									#95
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The whole thing about voting for a Democrat or Republican because otherwise your vote is "wasted" reminds me of a Hitchhiker's quote:

quote: "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."

	21-11-2003 06:13									#96
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Alrighty then -- no more of that again. But it was just ***-for-tat, you have to admit.

Wimp. Of course my ass is Ming's...

	21-11-2003 06:18									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith IIRC the relevant provision was a Pennsylvania state law which prohibited mining within 300 feet of an existing mine. The company thought it was in compliance. The problem was that the maps were bad.

Don't be mixing in facts like that. Che likes to live in fantasy land. I mean we are talking about a person who still idolizes communism...

	21-11-2003 06:22									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Other reasons for a libertarian to support Dean: -His campaign is actually democratic! It's a grass-roots campaign, not run by a bunch of corporations and other entrenched interests that the Republicans and Democrats stand for. Voting for Dean in 2004 means revolutionizing politics - and the possibily to vote for Browne, etc., down the line. This is probably the biggest reason I'm supporting him. I don't like quoting politicians, but as Dean said, I want my country back! -He's a step forward on ending the war on drugs. Not a huge step, and he's been doing some considerable waffling on this issue, but he seems to want to somewhat scale back prison time for using drugs. For instance, he's said he'd support a moratorium on medical marijuana raids. -As I just wrote, he's said he'd scale back agrisubsidies to only family-farms. -He's argued for a less extremist position on a wide variety of foreign policy issues from Colombia to Israel. -He's argued for far less corporate welfare in general.

He is still getting lots of union and fatcat and trial lawyer dollars. They have set up soft money fronts to spend the stuff. Soros gave 10 million.

	21-11-2003 06:23									#99
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I'm caught up now...

	21-11-2003 08:47									#100
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The hard way is my specialty. You're lucky I let you learn the easy way this time.

	21-11-2003 09:13									#101
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quote: And I can tell you, from having actually done the analysis, that there is zero, zip, nada, not any correlation between increased enforcement of these regulations and improved railroad safety.

That is really surprising to me. I always assumed that at least some regulation in most industries was good. Maybe I ought to rethink my assumptions.

	21-11-2003 09:14									#102
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It looks like Che has found a Democrat he likes.

Che, you made a good point about the shrimp and about the slave labor. Obviously, we need to impose restrictions on shrimp fishing as a part of global treaties with international enforcement. It makes no sense to impose restrictions only on US shrimpers.

Ditto, "slave" labor. However, IIRC, Bush made a very strong statement concerning slavery in his speech to the UN. Did they do anything about it? Has Dean even mentioned the problem?

	21-11-2003 09:16									#103
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Also, Clinton is the free trader in America. Bush has been very protectionist. Were a Democrat from the Clinton wing running, I would consider supporting him or her. But alas, all the Dems seem to have gone seriously left, with Dean constantly moving even farther left to provide separation.

	21-11-2003 09:39									#104
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quote: Originally posted by DanS That is really surprising to me. I always assumed that at least some regulation in most industries was good. Maybe I ought to rethink my assumptions.

I've seen lots of times where increased stringency of a safety standard does not convert into more safety. there are lots of regulations with poor cost/benefit. Not all. But many.

	21-11-2003 09:58									#105
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quote: Nor does regulation kill. In fact, it does the opposite. It saves lives.

Tell that to the millions killed by the DEA and FDA.

	21-11-2003 10:00									#106
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doper

	21-11-2003 10:05									#107
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I really do not believe that the regulation that Dean is talking about are safety regulations. He is talking about economic regulations: restrictions on ownership, prices, etc. The safety regulations take care of themselves by the robust tort law system in the US. A worker gets hurt. If the company was wilfully negligent, they get punitive damages in addition to compensatory. This alone is enough to keep everyone safe.

Che's example feces on the meat and mice in the sandwiches are so overblown as to be ludicrous. If anything of the sort ever did happen, the company responsible would soon be put out of business because no one would deal with them anymore.

	21-11-2003 12:23									#108
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boozer

	21-11-2003 12:44									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Tell that to the millions killed by the DEA and FDA.

	21-11-2003 13:05									#110
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Azazel, ever hear an FDA spokesman hold a press conference to announce how 50,000 people will not die next year because the FDA has just approved a new drug? I have... so don't laugh...because that means ~50,000 died last year, and ~50,000 the year before...and so on...because they were waiting for the FDA to give them permission to use a drug that would have saved their lives...


Real funny, huh...

	21-11-2003 13:14									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Tell that to the millions killed by the ... FDA.

Yeah, I'm so pissed that we missed all the fun with thalidomide and the like. Damn government for trying to make sure drugs meet certain safety standards.

	21-11-2003 13:33									#112
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Dino, whether or not the FDA saves lives is irrelevant to whether or not the FDA kills people. You want the FDA to make drugs "safe"? Then don't deny that the FDA kills people too, you just prefer a deal with the devil to kill some people to save others. So maybe you can be a little pissed about all the people who've died because of the FDA... They deserve better than laughter or sarcasm...

	21-11-2003 22:56									#113
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quote: Originally posted by TCO He is still getting lots of union and fatcat and trial lawyer dollars. They have set up soft money fronts to spend the stuff. Soros gave 10 million.

Even better, since I think George Soros is a great man, one of the world's greatest!

	21-11-2003 23:12									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Tell that to the millions killed by the DEA and FDA.

Okay, ya got me.

	21-11-2003 23:13									#115
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega Even better, since I think George Soros is a great man, one of the world's greatest!

Are you sure you aren't a leftie?

	21-11-2003 23:45									#116
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quote: Ditto, "slave" labor. However, IIRC, Bush made a very strong statement concerning slavery in his speech to the UN. Did they do anything about it? Has Dean even mentioned the problem?

Ooooh, Shrub made a speech! That certainly is extremely substantial, and negates for instance when he helps to legitimize the Musharraf regime that treats poor farmers as slaves.

	22-11-2003 01:24									#117
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quote: Okay, ya got me.

	22-11-2003 02:14									#118
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Azazel and Dino, I apologise. I know you guys weren't making light of the people who've died waiting for permission from the FDA to use drugs that would have saved their lives.

	22-11-2003 02:47									#119
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thanks.
I was simply shocked by that statement. While you maybe literally right, in a way, that doesn't mean that the FDA is a bad thing.

	22-11-2003 02:55									#120
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Ppl have died because of a drug as well as the lack of a drug.

The FDA is there to make sure that when I person takes a medicine they don't end up dying as a result of it. I mean, they took the drug to get better, not to die.

The last company I worked for always had protests out front by people who wanted to get in on clinical trials for certain drugs.