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orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
time: 00:32
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Originally posted by Promethus
Orange
Should I post in a different variant of English? |
Why would I be considered a racist for using that quote? And why would I want to wear that shirt? I guess I was confused by your post.
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I'm sorry, but white people don't personally suffer anywhere nearly as much from the psychological effects of racial prejudice as do black people. |
In America, no. I'd agree.
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The black girl needs a place where she feels safe. After all, if the race ratio at your school is like that of the typical American university then she is surrounded all day by people unlike her. |
Our numbers are slightly more than the national average for those numbers. America is filled with people who are 'unlike her' if you want to put it that way. Our university is about 80% white, 20% minority, 10-12% black.
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She needs a place where she can let down her guard. |
But as she says, this can't be with white people. This isn't my problem, it's hers. I saw her today in the dining hall and asked if she would like to sit with me and another coworker (white), but she saw some of her other friends (black) and decided to sit with them instead. Well ok, I don't mind...I don't feel rejected, but at the same time I know that I'm giving her the opportunity. I'm not making her feel like an outcast. I'm being inclusive...and not because she's black, but because I consider her a friend.
I wonder, if i came into the dining hall alone and passed by her sitting with her black friends, would she offer me a seat?
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Caligastia
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I almost never see Caligastia or the diplomat or others of their ilk post about racist discrimination that happens to Black people, but oh, let a white person claim they've been a victim of discrimination and we don't hear the end of it. |
Someone has to speak up about it. Why should whites be expected to just bend over and take it without complaint?
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Caligastia
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Originally posted by orange
What has become so positively draining on my life is my University's view of Diversity and Diversity Training. If you think my opinion is wrong, say so. If you think I'm right, please help me confirm that I'm not insane. I'm going to try to be as objective as possible when explaining what this is about. |
It's not you who is insane, it's the hate-filled promoters of diversity training.
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So here goes. First and foremost, the only way that I think you should judge people is on their individual characteristics. If I don't like you and you happen to be black, it's not because you're black. It's because I think you're an *******. I don't feel that it's right to think "Well, this person is black, so I should give them a break". I feel that the end goal of any diversity movement is to have people treat others as individuals (You know, judgement based on the content of one's character) then the only way to reach that goal is to do that. |
Of course we should treat people as individuals, but this doesn't jive with leftist ideology. Leftists want to destroy the concept of the individual, so it's not suprising that leftist diversity training fails to recognise individuality.
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Not only is this view 'incorrect' to Residence Life, it is a cardinal sin. We have a special Hall Director whose job it is to work on Diversity issues at the University. Not that I think it matters, but she is white. We shall call her "JJ" because the mere sight of her name makes me want to rip the flesh from my body and scream blue murder. |
As you can see, diversity zealots have a sense of moral superiority that would make a religious fundimentalist blush.
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At one such 'diversity training' session, a white student (RA) raised her hand and asked a question. She noted that two of her black residents were going to another RA (who was black) with their problems. She wondered why that was, and what she could do to make them feel more comftorable coming to her. JJ responded in a verbose manner, saying that as black people their experiences with white people were probably very negative, and that they were completely within their rights not to trust her as a white person. She then said that if they felt more comftorable going to a black RA with their problems, they should be able to. JJ then said that she should make a greater effort to be open to them, get to know them, and show concern for 'black issues' if she really wanted them to go to her, but even then they should not be expected to. |
Whites are expected to cater to the blacks' every whim, but blacks are expected to stick with 'their people'.
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Another RA raises his hand. Also white. "Well does that also apply if a White person doesn't go to his Black RA?" JJ responds in two very loud, very disturbing sentences. "Absolutely not! That is Racism!" |
If blacks prefer the company of their own kind it's perfectly ok, but if whites do the same they are branded as vicious racists.
It's plain to see that the goal of diversity policies is not to encourage understanding between racial groups, but to allow all races except whites to associate with their own kind. Freedom of association applies to everyone except whites.
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When I say that I got up and left the room, I am not joking. It infuriated me so much that I could not sit there and listen to it any longer. |
I don't blame you. I would have done the same thing.
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These examples occur at our campus wide Diversity training sessions. Now I have an example of what is going on at our individual staff meetings.
Again, a little background first. At a campus wide RA Diversity Training session, we had a guest speaker. He is fairly well known, perhaps you have heard of him. Le Mun Wa...he was on Opera before, and he does films. Two of the ones most well known are "The Color of Fear" and "Last chance for Eden" (or something like that).
He told us a story about how he was flying on a United plane, and because he dresses in traditional Chinese clothing and styles his hair in a traditional Chinese way (though he was born in America to legal immigrants) the pilot picked on him, and referred to him as a possible terrorist. Very sad, indeed. The kicker of it all - he did nothing about it! AND he still flies United! If that were me, I'd work to destroy the racism by hitting this guy where it hurts. You go as high as you can within the company making complaints about that person, and insert that you (as a frequent flier, which he is) will NEVER fly United again because of this incident.
Anyhow, he showed us one of the films, which involved a collection of people of different races (White, Native American, Hispanic, Black) sexual orientations (Heterosexual, Bisexual, Homosexual) and both genders.
What basically occurs in the film is that the white people begin to talk about how they don't feel that they are racists, and then are attacked by two or three of the others (minorities) for being racist, citing absolutely insane examples, and making them feel as if they are the reason racism still exists though they have clearly done NOTHING wrong, and certainly not at the meeting.
Afterwards, different people stood up and talked about how they were affected by racism at the hands of white people. |
You see? Diversity training is nothing but a big 'I hate whitey' session. Whites who attend are expected to be ashamed of their race. They are told that their race is vermin because whites are the only race capable of racism.
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Some of the stories were very sad, of course. But a few of them filled me with disgust for that individual. A Complex Coordinator who is Puerto Rican (very dark, with Native South American features...almost looks like she is from Brazil) tells about how she stepped outside her apt. one morning in sweats, and a few students who needed help with a maintenence issue asked if she was a janitor and could help them. She began crying because she stood there with a Master's degree, highly educated, with a high paying job and was reduced to a second class citizen. "I'm not a god damn janitor!"
I nearly blew my stack. How dare she put down the people who work on this campus who work as custodians smply because they don't have the kind of money and education that she is fortunate enough to have. Why is being mistaken for a custodian embarassing? I happen to talk to the custodians who work in my part of complex at least twice a week, and I find them to be some of the friendliest people. I've talked to several at length about their families, their goals for the future, where they grew up, holidays, projects going on at the University, and I don't feel as if I have to condescend to get on their supposed 'level'...but apparently this CC, in all her glory and education, feels that being seen as a janitor is the ultimate insult. Well **** YOU and your self righteousness. You're no better than anyone else who has prejudice. |
You are exactly right. She assumes that the reason she was mistaken for a janitor is because of her race. She has no reason to suspect this, but she assumes it is so as a result of her own paranoid delusions - delusions that are no doubt supported by what she has heard in diversity training - that all whites are vicious racists.
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Our staff meeting yesterday dealt with the Le Mun Wa presentation. Our Hall Director (White, Jewish, Heterosexual, Female) who I actually like quite a bit outside of this topic (and who I've debated this topic with on several occasions) began the meeting by saying that we would be dealing with a very controversial topic, and that if you didn't agree with the opinions being expressed, "tough. Sit there and fake it if you have to." |
Diversity training must never be questioned. This is exactly the same attitude as a fanatical religious fundimentalist - undeniable moral authority.
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We then did a fishbowl about the Le Mun Wa presentation, and dealt with some of the topics that came up. We went around, and she began asking certain people for their opinions (mainly my building partner, who is a black woman) and a friend of mine who is in another building (Korean American woman). That to me seems like a no-no right there...asking for the "Black Opinion", etc. |
Of course. What makes you think they have the slightest interest in what you have to say, whitey?
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But we go on. My building partner told about how she feels at the University...how she feels that she is ignored by professors, and that she has just learned to accept it and go about her business. She talks about how the only thing motivating her is the thought of graduation. She says she is tired of feeling as if no one at this University wants her here or values her, and that is why every day after class she goes to "The Booth" (a euphemism for a place in one of our centres where a large group of black friends are always hanging out between classes) so she can feel like a real person and feel heard. She says that she feels that she can never truly be friends with a white person becuase she will always feel as if they are judging her, or not really wanting her friendship.
This absolutely breaks my heart, not because I 'get it' now...but because prior to this night I considered her a good friend. I greatly enjoy her company, and think she is a wonderful person, and have never been able to work so well with someone in a job (we were randomly assigned our buildings). So now I can no longer feel as if she is my friend...now I must assume that she is not, because she has just said that she cannot be friends with white people. How depressing is that? |
This really is sad. This girl probably wants to be your friend, but she has been told so many times about how evil whites are that she can no longer see you as an individual. She has been brainwashed into thinking that all whites have an irrational hatred of other races. She now suffers from feelings of persecution that make friendship with you impossible.
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But what really drives me crazy is that this is not seen as racism. I'm labeled a racist becuase I "ignore" the "racism I have inside me" and judge people as individuals. What Residence Life would like us to do is to ignore history, ignore law, ignore percentages and statistics, ignore all logic, and when we're done with that we are to Build Up racism, and then work to destroy it. |
It's all about destroying the white racist boogeyman.
The funny thing is that if whites are so racist, then why are we the only race that promotes the interests of other races above our own? Outside of white, western civilization 'diversity training' would be laughed at. Yet whites are the most racist.
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Thanks if you read all of that! |
No worries.
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:32
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There's no reason to think a white person wouldn't be mistaken for a janitor if they were dressed the same way. Whether you think her race makes it more likely or not is irrelevent. The point is that she automatically assumes the worst. |
Yup. She probably wasn't mistaken for a janitor, only those who were asking needed one. Sometimes people ask "are you" to shorten "do you happen to know where". When I am at a store I ask people "do you work here" even if I know they don't, and they usually respond "no, they are wearing" or "no, but there is one now", instead of "you F'ing racist!"
Sounds like this girl is very insecure with herself, and could care less to help anyone.
I stand with Orange and Cali on this. Race issues always rile me up, and I too could write 100 pages on the matter. In short, when most ppl say "Diversity" they usually mean drawing lines and crapping on the heads who they feel are least deserving (whites). Anyone, of any color, can be racist.
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Caligastia
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Originally posted by Japher
Racism - basing decisions on those differences |
I don't think it's necessarily racist or wrong to base decisions on racial differences - for example if you need a white actor to play Winston Churchill in your movie.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
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Originally posted by Japher
Ok, Che, I'll go with that. Still, the RA who suggested that it is alright for a black student to go the black RA over their assigned RA is being racist. |
Dr. S-love made the most important post about this. Black people are frequent victims of racism as well as just simple racial insensitivity. Sometimes they want an escape, to be around people who have grown up with their own experiences.
I don't think there's anything wrong with white students wanting to go to a white counselor, provided it's not because they hate Black people. When you want someone to talk with when you are emotionally vulnerable, I think you should be able to go to someone you feel you can trust, even for superfical reasons.
When one group has oppressed another for four hundred years, you cannot expect them to just act like nothing happened. If Theben used to come over to your house every day for ten years and beat you, I wouldn't think you were an ******* because you didn't want to be my best buddy. I never did anything to you, but people associated with me did, and if I'm not a major *******, I wouldn't condemn you for it. I'd be pissed at my brother.
Nor can you abuse someone, then, when finally forced to stop doing it, simply pretend that now everything is okay, because you've stopped and aren't gonna do it anymore. Four hundred years of history weighs more heavily than you not personally particapting in it.
Black folks and whites folks are both damaged goods. We need to treat each other as if we are wounded on matters of race, because we are.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Wrong!
Diversity: Appreciating our differences
Integration: Mixing our differences.
Prejudice: Making decisions based on those differences
Racism: Having the power to carry out those decisions |
This is how I would put it:
Diversity: Appreciating our differences
Integration: Mixing our differences
Prejudice: Disliking a common group difference
Racism: Hating someone because of their race
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Dr. S-love made the most important post about this. Black people are frequent victims of racism as well as just simple racial insensitivity. Sometimes they want an escape, to be around people who have grown up with their own experiences. |
Did it occur to you that there are also whites who have had bad experiences at the hands of blacks?
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I don't think there's anything wrong with white students wanting to go to a white counselor, provided it's not because they hate Black people. |
...but it's ok if a black student goes to a black counselor because they hate white people?
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When you want someone to talk with when you are emotionally vulnerable, I think you should be able to go to someone you feel you can trust, even for superfical reasons. |
Does this go for whites too?
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When one group has oppressed another for four hundred years, you cannot expect them to just act like nothing happened. If Theben used to come over to your house every day for ten years and beat you, I wouldn't think you were an ******* because you didn't want to be my best buddy. I never did anything to you, but people associated with me did, and if I'm not a major *******, I wouldn't condemn you for it. I'd be pissed at my brother. |
Perhaps if blacks weren't continually reminded of slavery, Jim Crow etc then perhaps they might find it a little easier to accept white people.
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Nor can you abuse someone, then, when finally forced to stop doing it, simply pretend that now everything is okay, because you've stopped and aren't gonna do it anymore. Four hundred years of history weighs more heavily than you not personally particapting in it. |
If I didn't participate in it then there is no just reason why I should be associated with it.
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Black folks and whites folks are both damaged goods. We need to treat each other as if we are wounded on matters of race, because we are. |
Or perhaps we should stop trying to force them to live together when they obviously don't want to.
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Caligastia
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Well you're wrong. Racism is about power, not hatred. You don't have to hate someone to oppress them (though it sure makes it easier). |
I prefer to use the word 'racism' in the context in which it's most commonly used. Whenever someone is accused of racism they are basically being called an evil, hateful person. So unless someone hates someone because of their race, I won't call them racist.
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orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
time: 00:32
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Culture is real, race is a bs construct. |
Completely agreed. I can understand someone’s culture being different from mine, but I cannot understand, nor will I accept the idea of someone’s race being SUPERIOR to mine.
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There's no reason to think a white person wouldn't be mistaken for a janitor if they were dressed the same way. Whether you think her race makes it more likely or not is irrelevent. The point is that she automatically assumes the worst. |
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Yup. She probably wasn't mistaken for a janitor, only those who were asking needed one. Sometimes people ask "are you" to shorten "do you happen to know where". When I am at a store I ask people "do you work here" even if I know they don't, and they usually respond "no, they are wearing" or "no, but there is one now", instead of "you F'ing racist!"
Sounds like this girl is very insecure with herself, and could care less to help anyone.
I stand with Orange and Cali on this. Race issues always rile me up, and I too could write 100 pages on the matter. In short, when most ppl say "Diversity" they usually mean drawing lines and crapping on the heads who they feel are least deserving (whites). Anyone, of any color, can be racist. |
To comment on these two quotes, I also agree, but for slightly different reasons. If we only see coloured people in the positions of janitors, than we may be predisposed to believe that seeing a coloured person, especially ‘dressed down’, may be a janitor. What I can’t tolerate is the double standard. Either you accept that people are predisposed to believe things based on their interactions or you don’t, but I hate the implication that it is prejudiced to believe that a coloured person is a janitor while it is NOT prejudiced to, for example, be afraid as a woman when walking alone and there is a man walking behind you. To assume that the man is going to harm or rape you is based on your preconception that women walking alone at night are likely to be harmed or rape by a man is fine, so long as you can apply that to other areas as well. I don’t agree with this, personally, and I think both are prejudiced. It may not be that ‘wrong’ to be prejudiced in these situations, but it is still prejudice.
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Racism: Having the power to carry out those decisions |
Wrong!
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Racism
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. |
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I don't think there's anything wrong with white students wanting to go to a white counselor, provided it's not because they hate Black people. When you want someone to talk with when you are emotionally vulnerable, I think you should be able to go to someone you feel you can trust, even for superfical reasons. |
At least we can agree on that point, or at least the idea that the double standard on this issue is bunk.
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If Theben used to come over to your house every day for ten years and beat you, I wouldn't think you were an ******* because you didn't want to be my best buddy. I never did anything to you, but people associated with me did, and if I'm not a major *******, I wouldn't condemn you for it. I'd be pissed at my brother. |
NO! It’s still prejudiced! Otherwise you could apply this to someone who has had trouble with black people. That is why you shouldn’t judge people based on ANYTHING other than their own individual characteristics. People are individuals.
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I would also like to remind you that there is sucha thing as Black culture, and that, by and large, Black Americans are an ethnic group, distinct from mainstream America, much like Southerners are different frmo the rest of us. |
I disagree. I don’t feel that there is a “Black culture” just as there isn’t a “White culture”. People all have different backgrounds, and being black doesn’t necessarily tie you closer to someone who is black who grew up in a radically different environment than you did. Especially if they are not African American, but native African.
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Diversity: Appreciating our differences
Integration: Mixing our differences
Prejudice: Disliking a common group difference
Racism: Hating someone because of their race |
I like this set best, though I would define prejudice as making a judgment or assumption about someone based on a physical characteristic prior to confirming it with a more reliable method.
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Intelligence is lost on you people. |
Well I’m glad you’re taking such a self-righteous approach to this, but you have yet to prove a thing.
...you criminal
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20-11-2003 13:09
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