21-11-2003 20:10									#31
	Increase Your PM Length

Where is the AU course?

I really want to finally play an AU game. This is a good "jumping on" point. But I can't find the damn thread regarding the AU game that's apparently going on anywhere!

Can someone help me? Is it just "too late"?

	21-11-2003 20:33									#32
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master I will officially make this an AU house rule as Dominae previously stated. To accept any GPT deals with the AI you must half the amount for the trade to be allowed.

The only problem with this is that I, as a player, often sell techs to the AI at bargain rates just to keep them bankrupt. So if they can only pay 10 gpt, but if they had the money they'd give me 80 gpt, why should I accept only 5gpt?

I guess I'll probably opt out until the bug is officially fixed.

	21-11-2003 21:22									#33
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth I really want to finally play an AU game. This is a good "jumping on" point. But I can't find the damn thread regarding the AU game that's apparently going on anywhere!

If it's not at the top of the Strat forum, the latest AU course is probably not up yet (unless you only check the board every few weeks). You can always go to the AU History 101 to make sure. badams52 has been very good in updating it.

Check this thread for an explanation of why the first C3C AU course is not up yet.


Dominae

	21-11-2003 21:31									#34
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Double-post.

Last edited by Dominae on 21-11-2003 at 21:39

	21-11-2003 21:32									#35
	Remove this text

Thanks for the links Dominae. I was under the impression that Nuclear Master had set up the new AU course, the first one for C3C... that's what the "apolyton news" seems to indicate.

I'm glad there's no AU course set... I'm grimly determined to win once in the epic game as the Romans before moving on, and I know most people here aren't huge map fans.

	21-11-2003 21:32									#36
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Stuie The only problem with this is that I, as a player, often sell techs to the AI at bargain rates just to keep them bankrupt. So if they can only pay 10 gpt, but if they had the money they'd give me 80 gpt, why should I accept only 5gpt?

That's some weird reasoning.

How much would you get from the AI if you were playing Play the World? Answer: 10 gpt.

How much would you get from the AI if you were playing Conquests? Answer: 10gpt + 10gpt (bug) = 20 gpt.

How much should ask from the AI to make sure you're not exploiting the gpt bug? Answer: 5gpt.

So, unless you think there was somehow a problem with the AI not giving you enough money in Play the World, you should have no problem asking for half as much gpt in Conquests, which gets you exactly as much as you would normally get. The fact that the AI would pay more has nothing to do with it.

The problem is that the AI is still left with 5gpt, while in Play the World it would be left with nothing (maybe this is what you were getting at and I missed it). This makes the AI richer, but it also makes you richer, because every 1gpt that the AI has is actually worth 2gpt to you. So you if you're in a tech lead you can make some ridiculous money (i.e. double what you normally would) even when you're selling stuff at half price, given that you have enough items to sell. So it seems that the problem you were suggesting is actually bad for the AI, not for you.


Dominae

	21-11-2003 21:36									#37
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Dominae The problem is that the AI is still left with 5gpt, while in Play the World it would be left with nothing (maybe this is what you were getting at and I missed it).

That's what I was getting at - keeping the AI bankrupt ( 0 gpt )

	21-11-2003 21:41									#38
	Remove this text

Right, well, read the comments in the last paragraph of my last post. The fact that you're getting twice as rich far outweighs the fact that the AI gets to keep a measly few gpt available.


Dominae

	21-11-2003 21:45									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Huh? With the house rule, I'm getting the 10gpt that I should get (5gpt plus the bug 5gpt), but the AI still gets 5gpt that it should not get. Exactly how does this benefit me?

	21-11-2003 22:54									#40
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Stuie you may as well get use to the proper amount as they will correct the problem anyway. You can avoid the whole thing with cash and carry deals.

	21-11-2003 23:02									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That's not the point. One of my strategies is to get the AI down to 0 gpt by giving techs at bargain prices. The fact that I'm getting some amount of gpt is just icing on the cake. It's not about what I'm getting, it's about denying the AI use of gold.

I guess others see it differently. It's not a big deal; I'll just wait for a patch if AU is going to implement house rules that negate some strategic part of the my play style.

Edit: Cash and carry deals -

	21-11-2003 23:07									#42
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Stuie you may as well get use to the proper amount as they will correct the problem anyway. You can avoid the whole thing with cash and carry deals.

Only that the AI may not have the cash sum equal to the gpt deal it would agree to.

	22-11-2003 02:15									#43
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Stuie I guess others see it differently. It's not a big deal; I'll just wait for a patch if AU is going to implement house rules that negate some strategic part of the my play style.

Here's an example:

Say an AI has 16gpt available. You want to get as much of that away from it as possible. You can offer Steam Power, Nationalism and Medicine, plus a source of Iron. Obviously the AI will pay up to 16gpt for any of those things. You organize the following trades (with the house rule we've just set up):

1. Steam Power for 8gpt. The AI has 8gpt left.
2. Nationalism for 4gpt. The AI has 4gpt left.
3. Medicine for 2gpt. The has 2gpt left.
4. Iron for 1gpt. The AI has 1gpt left.

At the end of this, you've almost succeeded in your goal of taking away all the AI's gpt. But how much are you earning? It should be 15gpt, but actually it's double that, or 30gpt. Under Play the World it would be no more than 16gpt. So, as you can see, in the situation you're describing (where you're powerful enough to take away all the AIs' gpt), the benefit actually goes to you, not the AI, despite the house rule.


Dominae

	22-11-2003 02:20									#44
	Increase Your PM Length

Ok, ok. But in PTW I could probably get the entire 16gpt for any ONE of the items listed, and have the others left to come back later to clean the AI out again.

Let's just say I hope the patch isn't long in coming.

	22-11-2003 02:21									#45
	Suffering from ads?

Well, to be fair, the benefit goes to both. The AI does get Steam Power, Nationalism, and Medicine for free, which are objectively worth more than the extra 15 gpt you are receiving after all.

This gpt bug makes more gold enter the game. It doesn't matter who benefits, but it will make the tech rate go faster.

On the other hand, the corruption bugs reduce the amount of gold in the game, so in this case two wrongs might make one right.

	22-11-2003 02:27									#46
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think Stuie's point is valid and I understand the point of a House Rule here, but in this situation, the HR actually defeats the purpose of this specific strategy.
The strategy is to make sure the AI doesn't have any money to spend as opposed to enriching the player.
The HR is to ensure that the player doesn't get extra money, not to prevent impoverished AIs.

It's an ugly bug, but the HR against enriching the player also emasculates the strategy of impoverishing the AI. Yes, the player still receives the same amount of gold he would without the HR, but the strategy is useless now, since the AI still has half his income.

If only there were some way to take the extra income and essentially toss it in the sea...

	22-11-2003 02:32									#47
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, you can always rush stuff then sell it. But somehow I doubt anyone is willing to micromanage to cover up Firaxis' mistakes.


Dominae

	22-11-2003 03:40									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Well, you can always rush stuff then sell it. But somehow I doubt anyone is willing to micromanage to cover up Firaxis' mistakes. Dominae

I'm not willing to micromanage much in the first place; that's why I'm still playing on Monarch.

	22-11-2003 07:00									#49
	Increase the size of your Attachments

BTW, I'd like to echo YS... for once we get some decent publicity on the first page, and yet there is no AU course to be played!!

Let's just bang one out: limited objectives / scope, and call it Extra Bug Credit or something. Small map, AGR civ... "REX like the Wind" or something. What is it called on CFC? Quick Start Challenge, or some such?

Matter 'o fact, starting with some early game basics might be really beneficial for the new 'students'. And I wouldn;t mind seeing some of our economist stars in action either.

	24-11-2003 20:32									#50
	Support Apolyton

I did some gpt deals this weekend (finally) and didn't notice the bug. Am I mad, or missing something?

	24-11-2003 21:02									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth I did some gpt deals this weekend (finally) and didn't notice the bug. Am I mad, or missing something?

Where were you checking?

If you go to your Domestic Advisor screen you will see your gpt from other Civs your current "total" gpt income, and your current balance. If you add the gpt from other Civs, the "total" gpt, and your balance, that should equal your new balance on the following turn.

The bug is the fact that gpt from other Civs is already accounted for in the "total", so it's being added twice.

	24-11-2003 21:13									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Stuie The bug is the fact that gpt from other Civs is already accounted for in the "total", so it's being added twice.

Ah, I see.

A likeable bug for me.

Obviously this should be fixed, but this seems like total fluff compared to the corruption problems...

	24-11-2003 21:28									#53
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth Obviously this should be fixed, but this seems like total fluff compared to the corruption problems...

Funny. I'm of the exact opposite opinion. The corruption bug just isn't such a big deal to me (good thing alexman is away this week ). I can get around it by keeping WLT*D going, and building the corruption fighting buildings (courthouse, police station...).

But the gpt bug? That just puts way too much gold into circulation that shouldn't even exist.

Of course, in the end they need to fix both.

	24-11-2003 21:32									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

This is true. But as an empire-builder, I have to disagree with you. The corruption issue really gets me down. I often don't SPEND the money I get from gpt deals; I use them to bankrupt the AI, and that can still be accomplished.

Oh sure, I could spend the money, but I typically don't. Because I'm lazy. I do use it for upgrades, I suppose.

Don't get me wrong though; both bugs should be fixed, for sure.

Any news on a patch?