20-11-2003 19:34									#1
	dont get any miltary leaders Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

playing as maya. its now about 1800 bc and there been some major fighting going on.

in PTW i noticed that when a elite unit conquers a city theres a very good chance it get promoted, in fact almost every time a city get conquered the first unit in gets promoted.

now in c3c i havent got a single military leader which seems very strange.

could this be due to the fact that im still holding on to my scientific leader. can you only have one at a time?

regards,
zz

	20-11-2003 20:07									#2
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quote: Originally posted by zzarkov could this be due to the fact that im still holding on to my scientific leader. can you only have one at a time?

maybe.

	20-11-2003 21:11									#3
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no, you can have both, and in fact, you can have multiple sci leaders at once.

	21-11-2003 00:33									#4
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I was wondering about multiple Sci leaders. Thanks.

	21-11-2003 01:41									#5
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quote: Originally posted by zzarkov could this be due to the fact that im still holding on to my scientific leader. can you only have one at a time?

Yes, that's probably why. The game has always only allowed one Leader at a time and I suspect that the rules haven't changed as far as that's concerned, even though it's a Scientific Leader, not a Military one.

	21-11-2003 01:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX no, you can have both, and in fact, you can have multiple sci leaders at once.

So you've actually had that happen? And I was wondering if the Heroic Epic makes any difference as far as Scientific Leaders are concerned. Or does it only affect your Military Leader odds?

	21-11-2003 02:56									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Willem So you've actually had that happen? And I was wondering if the Heroic Epic makes any difference as far as Scientific Leaders are concerned. Or does it only affect your Military Leader odds?

I've had it happen. I got it for one tech and was saving the leader until one of my cities finished building a needed unit so I could start a GW and rush it when a few turns later the next tech was done and I got another leader. What was strange is that both the leaders had the same name, even though the editor shows multiple leader names.

I haven't yet had a SL and a ML at the same time, but that's more than likey just due to luck of the draw as far as timing.

	21-11-2003 03:11									#8
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I have had a MGL in play when a SGL showed up.

	21-11-2003 03:18									#9
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quote: Originally posted by EvilKosh I've had it happen. I got it for one tech and was saving the leader until one of my cities finished building a needed unit so I could start a GW and rush it when a few turns later the next tech was done and I got another leader. What was strange is that both the leaders had the same name, even though the editor shows multiple leader names. I haven't yet had a SL and a ML at the same time, but that's more than likey just due to luck of the draw as far as timing.

Maybe it only crosses the leader off its list when you use it....

	21-11-2003 03:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Willem And I was wondering if the Heroic Epic makes any difference as far as Scientific Leaders are concerned. Or does it only affect your Military Leader odds?

HE makes no difference in SGL or MGL showing up directly. It does increase the chances of making promotions, which indirectly increase the chances of getting an MGL.

	21-11-2003 04:09									#11
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In one of my games, I've had several battles vs. other nations without any MGLs. Very disturbing, since I'm a militaristic nation.

	21-11-2003 05:16									#12
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 HE makes no difference in SGL or MGL showing up directly. It does increase the chances of making promotions, which indirectly increase the chances of getting an MGL.

The HE does directly increase the rate of getting MGL's (from 1/16 to 1/12 attacking and 1/32 to 1/24 defending). Although I believe that the rate of getting a SGL is hardcoaded at 3% for non scientific civ's and 5% for scientific civ's.

It took me about 50 elite victories to get my first MGL (which are only really useful for armies and palaces anymore) and 7 with my next 50 (with 2 coming within the next three elite wins after my first MGL)

	21-11-2003 05:28									#13
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quote: I have had a MGL in play when a SGL showed up.

quote: no, you can have both, and in fact, you can have multiple sci leaders at once.

Is this by design, IE delibirate or that it is an eugh oversight. Not sure I like this...

	21-11-2003 07:20									#14
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of all the games of civ3 Ive only had MGL and armies in one of them.

	21-11-2003 07:57									#15
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: I have had a MGL in play when a SGL showed up. quote: no, you can have both, and in fact, you can have multiple sci leaders at once. Is this by design, IE delibirate or that it is an eugh oversight. Not sure I like this...

Impossible to know really, the likelihood of having multiple SGLs at the same time is slim no matter what you do. even if you are the first to research almost every tech. With an overly militaristic approach you could always greatly increase your chances of getting an MGL, so it makes some sense that you are restricted to one at a time of them.

	21-11-2003 08:52									#16
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Considering that they really aren't the same thing, unless you want to rush a factory with a SGL, I don't find it odd at all. Especially since MGLs have been well and truely nerfed (pretty well).

	23-11-2003 18:47									#17
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thanks for your replies

	23-11-2003 19:33									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us of all the games of civ3 Ive only had MGL and armies in one of them.

bad luck, eh? even I as a persistent builder have had MGLs and armies in most of my games.

	24-11-2003 04:59									#19
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i think its stupid to have military leaders occur so rarely. this leaves the entire concept of armies out of many games since theres no other way to build them other than using a leader for your first...

	24-11-2003 06:01									#20
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quote: Originally posted by zzarkov i think its stupid to have military leaders occur so rarely. this leaves the entire concept of armies out of many games since theres no other way to build them other than using a leader for your first...

You have MGLs appear rarely? I get too many, when fighting as a non Militaristic...

	26-11-2003 03:12									#21
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Considering that they really aren't the same thing, unless you want to rush a factory with a SGL, I don't find it odd at all. Especially since MGLs have been well and truely nerfed (pretty well).

I can't say that MGL's have been nerfed, unless you lean on GL's to build wonders with, as armies have gotten a major upgrade.

	26-11-2003 04:07									#22
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In all my years of playing Civ 3 and PTW I've only gotten about 5 MGLs the entire time. If I ever got any MGLs in Conquests it would probably be more than before.

	26-11-2003 04:34									#23
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I actually used to get quite a few MGL's with vanilla civ3, but with each patch/expansion, I have seen less and less of them...

	26-11-2003 06:11									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Trip In all my years of playing Civ 3 and PTW I've only gotten about 5 MGLs the entire time. If I ever got any MGLs in Conquests it would probably be more than before.

Wow, I guess the game that I got 55 would have freaked you out.
I think I saw someone on CFC get 78. Of course 1 or 2 was the not unusual either.

	26-11-2003 08:04									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber I can't say that MGL's have been nerfed, unless you lean on GL's to build wonders with, as armies have gotten a major upgrade.

Armies are good, but GWs are better.

Actually, I enjoy the new model more. I have to earn it to build every wonder outside of the Ancient age. War was getting boring. Go to war with knights to get the leaders to build the wonders every freekin' game. I didn't want to help myself 'cause I'm a wonder junkie.

Now I have to play better and plan better, except rarely when I get lucky with one or two SGLs. That's the point, getting GLs was no longer a matter of good luck, but the careful waging of war. Bad luck could always strike, but not usually.

	26-11-2003 20:00									#26
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Armies are good, but GWs are better.

Can't argue with you there

quote: Actually, I enjoy the new model more. I have to earn it to build every wonder outside of the Ancient age. War was getting boring. Go to war with knights to get the leaders to build the wonders every freekin' game. I didn't want to help myself 'cause I'm a wonder junkie.

I am also a wonder junkie, but I usually get my empire in order first before waging war, and by the time I get my first MGL most of the ancient wonders are built and probably Sun-Tzu's and Leo's as well. By the time I get the MGL production line going it is too late for most wonders. This is the reason that I aplaud the upgrade of the Armies. Also I was getting tired of the wonder cascade which C3C has done a wonderful job of squashing.

quote: Now I have to play better and plan better, except rarely when I get lucky with one or two SGLs. That's the point, getting GLs was no longer a matter of good luck, but the careful waging of war. Bad luck could always strike, but not usually.

Use your most productive cities for wonders (usually your first four and an aditional high shield site; with camps (small cities) for unit and settler production.