21-11-2003 03:58									#1
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I've been thinking that these change how Civ3 was played in the past quite drastically. The ability to rush wonders using Military Leaders required some war mongering in order to generate a leader if you wanted to rush a wonder.

This ability has been removed from the MGL and given to the SGL in C3C. It would be entirely possible (though unlikely) to never build a military unit and focus solely on research, building improvements and wonders.

The change is a welcome addition to peaceful builders but what strategies can be developed with this addition?

At first I thought it would change how the Forbidden Palace could be rushed but since that is a small wonder the MGL still can rush it in some frontier city.

The SGL can be used to increase scientific output by 25% in all your cities. How valuable is this Age of Science? It seems that rushing wonders is more beneficial and will be the typical task of the SGLs.

Apparently you can also have more than on SGL at a time. If this is the case you could sit on a few waiting for specific techs to get the wonder you want.

Would those with more experience with the SGLs share what this change has meant for your gameplay?

	21-11-2003 14:49									#2
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Mountain Sage, are you reading this? Got conquest?

	21-11-2003 15:13									#3
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Well, I just got my first SGL - in the Age of Discovery scenario. Easy choice, rush a GW. My thought is that the overall benefit of a GW is greater than a short term science boost. A happiness or science wonder will probably enable your civ to produce more science in the longer term than the short term boost of the SGL anyway.

I haven't tested or calculated this, just a gut feeling that I would rather have the tangible benefits of a GW.

	21-11-2003 23:15									#4
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Don't worry about it much, you will not have enough of them to sweat it. I got 4 in one game, mostly it is just 1, no matter how many techs I learn first.
The Age only saves about one turn, so how important is that? Worth more than getting Hoover? I doubt you could justify using it on anything other than a wonder.

	22-11-2003 05:43									#5
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I've read it's a 5% chance of getting a SGL for getting an advance first if you're a scientific civ ; 3% if your not. You're not going to get lots of SGLs.

The only reasonable choices for a SGL - GW or FP.

	22-11-2003 05:49									#6
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Then why bother including the 25% bonus? What situation would warrant using a SGL for that?

I guess I don't really have an idea how much 25% actually gets you in terms of turn savings.

	22-11-2003 05:53									#7
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I can't imagine trading a Wonder for +20% science research. You can save up multiple SGLs, so, while there are still Wonders to be built (or even other high-cost useful things -- you can rush a Military Academy army build, for instance, or SS parts), nigh-unlimited shields for one build seem much more useful than 1.2x beakers for 20 turns.

	22-11-2003 07:10									#8
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quote: Originally posted by SirOsis Then why bother including the 25% bonus? What situation would warrant using a SGL for that? I guess I don't really have an idea how much 25% actually gets you in terms of turn savings.

I only used an SGL for research boost once. I was a modern tech that was set for 5 turns at around 70%. Using the SGL cut it to 4 turns. That is 20%, but given I was several techs ahead, it was worth nothing to me. No wonder was coming online soon and I was able to build them faster than the AI anyway, so I gave it a shot. Never again.

	07-12-2003 04:33									#9
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I got one after researching alphabet or writing, way early in any case.
I saved my game there to try out my options since I didn't know what it could do.
Obviously turning it into the science boost meant absolutely nothing at that time since I had just one city.
Secondly I tried building the Pyramids with my leader, but forgot it gave me a one city Golden Age, ouch!
I reloaded the savegame and now used my leader to build the great library a bit later, that one helped a lot (obviously).

My second city was on elephants, so that one build the Statue of Zeus, best start I've had in Civ3 so far

Oh yeah, I was Mayans btw, playing on Monarch and getting no horses at all, so the free cav was a livesaver.
I'm at Military tradition now with my Golden Age still in my pocket for later use, might be good around railroad time.

	07-12-2003 21:32									#10
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Statue of zeus can be also a life saver when you're low on iron. That extra HP makes them wonderful for an early army too, just remember to build barracks in the same city

	08-12-2003 01:17									#11
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I used my SGL to boost science production.

Hoover was 5 turns from being built, and Sufferage was about 10.
Research was taking my 5 or 6 turns but I was getting it down to 4 with the golden sci age. I figure it saved me 4 or 5 turns which was the equivalent one tech.

Normally, I agree you should use a SGL to Rush a wonder, but under some circumstances gaining the Scientist boost is a reasonable use.