21-11-2003 06:47									#1
	SST - Simian Science Thread Increase Your PM Length

Our current tech status.

Date : 1550bc

We have:

Bronze Working
Masonry
Alphabet
Pottery
Warrior Code
Ceremonial Burial

Iron Working
Writing

Currently researching: Literature (15 turns @ 80%)

Techs we have, that:

Cake or Death do not have:

None

Team Monyty Python do not have:

Warrior Code

	21-11-2003 18:48									#2
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Beta, did we get any of these in trade with a "Dont trade them to anyone else agreement"

I got a feeling "Warrior Code" is in that category is it not?

If it isn't thats a great trade item with Monty because if they use it it will certainly be against CoD before us! (Geopolitically speaking)

	12-01-2004 21:45									#3
	Got spare money?

OK in my looking around the CoD and Monty diplo thread it looks like here is the no trade techs thus far:

Writing (Got from Cod for a hut pop)
Pottery (Purchased from CoD)
Warrior Code (Got it from Cod for a hut pop)
Wheel (from Monty for Lit.)
Philo (from Monty for Lit.)
Mysticism ((Got from Cod for a hut pop)

I think this is correct from my checking the diplo threads and the turn thread.

Someone double check me please

Do we already have mysticism?

	12-01-2004 22:40									#4
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Current Screen shot of science research screen:
950 BC
http://apolyton.net/upload/files/co...keyResearch.jpg

	12-01-2004 22:45									#5
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950 BC

The only tech that Monty does not have but we have is Warrior Code

But we got that in a trade from CoD so I believe that has a "no trade clause".

	13-01-2004 01:53									#6
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OK - how about this.

Scenario 1

We get the OK from CoD to trade WC. Should not be an issue - unless CoD and Python already have something in the works.

We trade MM and WC to Python for Republic.

We should also ask to get MM from CoD, but if we switched research now - they could really screw us if they wanted to. We are 3 turns from finishing. We can put it at 0 which will net us 19 gold until we are sure of the deal.


Scenario 2

We trade MM (now) and construction (in advance) to Python for Math (now) and currency (in advance). This still benefits thems - if they have HB rding - it could complete the deal.

We should also ask to get MM from CoD, but if we switched research now - they could really screw us if they wanted to. We are 3 turns from finishing. We can put it at 0 which will net us 19 gold.

We trade construction (in advance) for Republic (now) and Polytheism (in advance) to CoD.

And obviously, we start researching construction asap.

This will get us all the techs for the next era and republic. The last trade with CoD is a bit of a stretch - but I'm sure they want us as friends. And as we are researching the biggest tech, no one will 'stiff' us on the deal.

And that is the only drawback - CoD may not want to be in a situation where they are dependent on our research to get them into the next era. But it would still be shorter than doing it all themselves.

If we were to go this route - we could use a second library.

So, any thoughts.

	13-01-2004 02:30									#7
	Remove this text

Republic will be given to Monty for a trade, so we would have to get permission from CoD for us to trade a "no trade tech" and also for Monty to trade a "no trade tech".

But this is shaping up,

Lets see how we would do after we get mysticism, switch to Poly and go for a trade with that. As long as we swicth before the end of research we dont lose any beakers correct?

	13-01-2004 07:26									#8
	Got spare money?

Um - no - research is not like builds. You lose the entire research done to-date. That's always been my understanding.

	13-01-2004 08:03									#9
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Sorry that I havent been around much.
Holidays.. and then just been flat out with RL.

As Beta said.. we cant switch our research.

CoD are a bunch of asses
They could of waited 4 more turns..we do the trade, and then they pop some other tech.

I have no real solution to offer.
I havent looked at a save for a while.

If it was GoW, we would rant and rave about how :-
We had an understanding that it was republic for MM
If they got MM from the hut, then it's their problem not ours.
The deal goes through...we get Republic or else !! ##!!

This is not PTWDG #1 ... but It may be worth a shot.
Dont be afraid to play hardball con.
CoD need us as a trading partner...and most likely as a friendly neighbour while they rex...they have no army.

You can do it like this con.
"Dear CoD, many of our monkey members are quite upset at hearing you got MM from the Hut. It was our understanding that we were to work together in a tech alliance, and although not formally written, we were to swap MM for Republic.
If CoD got MM from some other means, then team monkey should not be disadvantaged by CoD not keeping up their end of our arrangement"

Then say that that is a "team response" (Bad Cop) .. and that you "Con the Wise" (Good Cop), do not necessarily agree with the team, and want to come to another deal pretty soon, that you can “sell” to the team as a viable and beneficial alternative.


The only other way to force CoD to keep it's poorer neighbours up to date in tech, is to threaten to embargo them.
ie Monty & Monkey embargo CoD, until we are equal in tech.

But that means getting Monty on side, and I dont think it's Sir Ralph playing style to do so. Monty & CoD are working too close together.

That’s all I can offer for now.
Sorry.

	13-01-2004 08:42									#10
	Got spare money?

Hmm - not a bad idea H_E. I like it. They do need us as peaceful neighbours. More than we need them.

	13-01-2004 20:17									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OK it really looks like you guys want to do this.

I am unconvinced but will still do my best to pull this off diplomatically.

With the cooperation Monty and CoD have and the development lead CoD has and the military lead Monty has we really dont negotiate from a position of strenght.

And if CoD gets pissed off then the chances of them letting us trade two techs they traded to us is going to be slim. (Warrior Code and Republic)

But if this is what you guys want to do fine. If we get left out in the cold, all Im going to say is I told you so.

And there is no guarentee a suicide galley will make it to the other continent and no guarentee if we get there we can work into whatever tech deal they probably got going.

One last chance to check and make sure you want to do this then Ill send the PM.

	14-01-2004 03:24									#12
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con,

it doesnt have to be overly aggressive.
But trust me... they are probably crossing their fingers in CoD that we just cave in, dont complain, and fork over cash to buy republic.

Just tell them, that we are in hot debate about pulling out of the tech alliance.
One option being pushed, is to study Republic ourselves, and just send suicide galleys until we reach the other continent...where tech may be cheaper.

Just push the line....
"It was our understanding that we were to work together in a tech alliance, and although not formally written, we were to swap MM for Republic.
If CoD got MM from some other means, then team monkey should not be disadvantaged by CoD not keeping up their end of our arrangement"

You can be friendly in your reply.
Say that you are just quoting a post within our forum.

Just remember that we are the poor civ on our continent, and CoD is working hard to ensure we stay that way. Giving them our gpt details to purchase Republic so that we remain poor, while they grow even stronger is one such example. Tech alliance partners should not be doing that....especially since, there are 4 teams on the other continent who will be working very close together.


Another option we can do...
Cut off research altogether...(after MM)
Build up cash.
Wait for a foreign galley to pop up.
(It will happen soon.. I guarantee they all with have MM over there, and are sending suicide galleys)
Purchase techs for cash from their continent.

Regs

	08-02-2004 21:58									#13
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Picking up from the moves thread... and Python's post - I also like their proposal regarding republic. I ran a quick test - at 100% science we can research it in 17 turns. It might be tricky maintaining that rate - so lets say 20.

Here is the tech tree. If we can swing a deal of Mysticism (which they do not have yet), HBR,(finished next turn) and republic - for two of currency, contsruction, and polytheism - then we are almost there. we would only have to swing a deal with CoD for the other. I can't recall what tech CoD is doing now.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...bc-techtree.JPG

	28-03-2004 22:12									#14
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This thread is not up to-date - but it is the best place to discuss the following:

We are researching at 20% science - and generating +22 gpt. Republic in 20 turns, as we can't really use it.

However - we can research at 60% quite easily (minus 2gpt) - and finish republic in 7, Poly in 6, and construction in 10. I presume the other civs already have them.

Or - we can buy the techs from Tabemono, who would likely be delighted to get some cash for techs everyone else already has.

I agree that a discussion like this is academic if we get toasted - but if we do manage to survive - it would be good to be back in the tech game.

And speaking of technology - I figure CoD and Python are working like mad on feudalism - and that the next wave we see will have MI's and pikes. Now that's a happy thought, isn't it?