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Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:32
  Old Post 21-11-2003 18:05
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Haiti Wants 22 Billion From France. Full PM-box? Change here!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...eparations_dc_1


quote:
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti (Reuters) - It's hard to listen to Haitian radio or watch Haitian television these days without hearing the uplifting government public service announcement song that goes: "We demand reparations, restitution. France, pay me my money, $21,685,135,571.48."

The television images show people in African clothing dancing and working in fields, the Eiffel Tower, infrastructure such as a dam and buildings and stacks of dollar bills.

Haiti is making serious efforts to get France to pay restitution of nearly $22 billion, according to Haitian Foreign Minister Joseph Antonio.

France colonized the Caribbean nation in the 17th century and imported African slaves to work the sugar cane and coffee plantations. The slaves rebelled, killing or driving out their French rulers, and Haiti declared independence in 1804.

France demanded 150 million francs, worth about $28.3 million today, as compensation for the loss of its colony and the Haitian government paid 90 million of that, enough to plunge the country deeply into debt for decades.

"It was not enough to have taken up arms in the struggle for independence," wrote Haitian novelist Jean Metellus in a historical essay. "It had to be paid for, too, and it's cost was high."

In April, President Jean-Bertrand demanded that France pay restitution, specifying the above sum, which takes into account inflation and interest.

After first refusing to discuss the matter, French President Jacques Chirac finally appointed Regis Debray, a left-wing intellectual, to head a commission to investigate the possibility of restitution.

With an invitation from the French Institute of Haiti, Debray held a conference in Port-au-Prince last month in which he made no promises about restitution but convinced attendants that France is seriously considering the matter.

ALL BUT THE 48 CENTS

Aristide held a three-day international colloquium in October to discuss the matter. It overlapped with the anniversary of Aristide's 1994 return to Haiti under U.S. military protection, which came three years after a coup drove him out.

"If on October 15, 1994, the impossible became possible, when it comes to restitution, the impossible will be possible," Aristide said.

The colloquium featured artistic entertainment, including a Haitian rapper chanting in Creole slang, "Lafrans kale m lamama m," or "France, give me my money."

Some critics believe the money, if paid, would go to waste in a government they view as corrupt. The running joke is that France agreed to pay the entire sum except for the 48 cents, to which Aristide replied, "But then what will be left for the people?"

Others say the government's approach will fail to persuade France, or that the discussion itself will hurt relations between the two countries.

But many are hopeful about the prospective cash flow, while recognizing the process could take years and the sum could be altered.

"I'm optimistic because it's a just fight," said Joseph Antonio. "When the fight is just, you always end up winning ... When is another question."

'MEAN OLD COLONIST'

Evans Paul, head of the opposition Convention for Democratic Unity party, agreed it is a just cause but doesn't think it can be won. He called the president's public and confrontational approach to the issue "political propaganda."

Paul said Aristide "gives the impression that France is a mean old colonist," something he doesn't expect France to respond well to. Paul advocates working with France to find the right moment and conditions for restitution.

"Mr. Paul is not the only one to think that way," said government spokesman Mario Dupuy. "There are some people who think (the president) should do this in private, above the population, which is to say behind the back of the population. But the president has adopted a transparent and public path with the population because ... demanding restitution is for the population."

But some feel that the entire process is a mistake. When Lionel Etienne, a Haitian who heads the French-Haitian Chamber of Commerce heard about the government's plans to demand restitution, he said, "It was like finding a hair in my soup."

Etienne believes that further developing diplomatic and economic ties between the two countries is far more productive than demanding money.

"France is our port of entry into Europe, and I think it's a shame to put in question our relationship with France" by reducing it to a demand for restitution, he said. "It's a combative undertaking."

Indeed, as the country prepares for the January bicentennial of its victory over France in the battle for independence, the political language, especially in reference to restitution, is full of bellicose terms -- "combat," "fight," "struggle" and "battle."

The demand for restitution may turn out to be the ultimate revolutionary war re-enactment in Haiti.


What do you think? Is it a good idea to give money to them if they can't get their corruption under control. Or does it even matter..

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-11-2003 18:08
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

well they'll stay corrupt and out of control until they get some money so we got a bit of a catch 22 going on.

but france should pay make what they forced the haitians to pay back in the day after the revolution. it's said that if france didn't demand those indemnities then haiti would be a far better place to live today.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 21-11-2003 18:40 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

or it could have ended up like cuba.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:32
  Old Post 21-11-2003 20:21
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quote:
or it could have ended up like cuba.


Cuba is the greatest place to live on Earth, isn't it? Our loveable Poly leftists couldn't be full of ****, could they?

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 21-11-2003 20:31 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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who knows how haiti would have ended up if france hadn't done what it did?

sure, we could have a great caribbean country, or we could have had one that was much worse.

flip a coin, and there's your ANSWAARRRSSS

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-11-2003 22:52
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Won't happen. If they did every other French former colony would make their pitch and France would go broke.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-11-2003 23:23 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I don't think other French colonies were forced to pay or their independence. I don't know why Haiti didn't tell France to stuff it. It's not like Nappy didn't have his hands full at the time.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-11-2003 23:30
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Why did Haiti pay? That's kinda silly. We kicked you out, now we have to pay for kicking you out? Wha?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 00:01 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I guess you don't want to piss off the most powerful country in the world, even if the British Navy stands between you and them.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 00:02
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#10 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

So what? Other countries didn't pay. UNLESS, it was part of a peace agreement, it was bunk and they shouldn't have done it. The US didn't pay for Britain's 'loss of colony' aside from any costs in the peace treaty, and they were the most powerful country in the world at that time.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 00:04
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Somehow I supsect they would be in better shape if Haiti were to rejoin France.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 00:04 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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let's just agree they had a lousy negotiator on the haitian side.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 00:05 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
Why did Haiti pay? That's kinda silly. We kicked you out, now we have to pay for kicking you out? Wha?


There was a growing country to its North that didn't look all that favorably at a state run by freed slaves. It was an extra measure of guarantee. After all, Jefferson even invited Nappy to retake Haiti.

Kaak is offline Kaak
King
Lost
May 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 00:09 Visit Kaak's homepage!
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

if i were france i'd tell them to put it in their pipes and smoke it.

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
Prince
huuhh
May 2001
time: 06:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I guess you don't want to piss off the most powerful country in the world, even if the British Navy stands between you and them.


I think perhaps that the brutal slaughtering of all the French on the island had pissed them off anyway.

But they obviously paid to avoid pissing them off further, to establish somewhat normal relations with France and what Ramo said.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 00:27
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#16 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If they were stupid enough to pay, that's their problem

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