22-11-2003 02:53									#1
	GS's offer Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well here it is the GS formal offer.

We, the peoples of the Glory of War and the Gathering Storm, in recognizing the threat posed to both of our glorious nations by Neu Demogyptia, agree this nation must be removed from the face of the earth. Therefore, we agree to put our lives, fortunes, and honor to risk in our chance to eliminate this threat once and for all. We pledge to unleash the great power of our Riders and War Chickens for the sake of returning this world to peace!

ARTICLE I - Objective

1. The two nations of Gathering Storm and Glory of War, whose sovereign interests have until recently been opposed in a titanic struggle for balance of power on the continent of Bob, have come to recognize that the stalemate in the Second Bobian War can serve the interests of neither side.
2. The source of the clash of interests - GS's MPP defense of Spain and GoW's contract to remove the RP Civ from Spanish soil must be honourably resolved.
3. A realignment of the balance of power is understood by both sides to be their only realistic chance of victory, with the ultimate need of both sides being to have enough productive land and access to resources to be able to eventually compete with the power to the west, Lego, enjoying a large productive continent to itself, and unimpeded in its economic development thus-far by conflict.
4. The primary obstacle to the aspirations of both GoW and GS, however, is recognized to be the Bobian power of Neu Demogyptia. This contract between the nations of Glory of War and Gathering Storm defines the terms and conditions of the hiring of the mercenary nation of GoW by GS to join and co-ordinate forces in a military and economic alliance to remove Neu Demogyptia from the game.


ARTICLE II - Honouring existing contractual obligations

1. GS agrees to respect the existing contract between GoW and ND requiring that RP to be removed from the continent of Bob.
2. GoW respects the existing alliance contract between GS and RP including Mutual Protection Pact.
3. GS shall clarify to RP that their continued protection and alliance with GS is dependent on RP making and maintaining peace with GoW as required by GS.
4. RP and GoW will mutually end all hostile and destructive intent and actions against the respective parties.


ARTICLE III - Conclusion of hostilities between GoW and GS

1. All Roleplay cities on Bob to be transferred to GS.
2. GS transfers selected cities on N.Stormia to RP.
3. Peace offered and accepted between all parties.

ARTICLE IV - Payment for Contract

1. Delivering the removal of RP from Bob, and enabling GoW to fulfil their existing contract with ND is seen as part payment from GS to GoW against the GS contract with GoW to eliminate ND from the game.
2. An agreement on land rights to make GoW the dominant landowner on Bob upon eventual defeat of ND will be made.
3. Allied participation between GS and GoW to defeat ND, with GoW taking the lion's share of the territorial spoils - giving them a large contiguous portion of Bob as far south as the jungle - would be seen as a substantial balance of the payment.
4. Once GS have Gunpowder, GoW can select a technology they would like GS to research for them as part payment of the contract. On completion, GS will deliver that technology to GoW.
5. GS is also able, in the medium and long tem, to deliver a majority portion of the overall research effort to also constitute a portion of the net payment.
6. For the final part of the payment, GoW are to be awarded the honour and glory of inflicting the final blow to ND.

ARTICLE V - Non Aggression

1. Neither nation shall attack the other during the duration of the contract unless it is mutually agreed to by both partners.
2. Neither nation shall declare war on the other during the duration of the contract unless it is mutually agreed to by both partners.

ARTICLE VI - Technology

1. At the time of the signing of this treaty, GS lags behind GoW in tech, but as soon as they are level, they will be able to contribute strongly to a shared, co-ordinated research program.
2. GS has partially researched Invention, but will need the remainder of that technology and Gunpowder to (a) be aware of the location of Saltpeter deposits, (b) deliver Musketmen to the battlefield, and (c) start contributing to a joint research program.


ARTICLE VII - Optional Rider Upgrade Program

1. In recognition of the unique battlefield abilities of the famed GoW Rider Regiments, developed in combination with the military productive power of Leonardo's Workshop, GS considers that the contract may be more swiftly completed by diverting a portion of its own commercial output to their partners GoW for the purposes of upgrading Horsemen/Chariots to Riders. For the purposes of concluding the contract, it makes more sense for GS gold to be spent on upgrading a 3-move knight at half price than a 2-move knight at full price. GS would continue to produce its own Knights, though less than it could otherwise produce.
2. GS would like to offer GoW the opportunity to benefit from this scheme, in appreciation of the efficient military machine that the GoW Civ has constructed, and to the mutual benefit of both parties.
3. Under the program, the transfer of GS economic power into GoW military power would be a firm indication of the trust and honour placed in GoW by GS. By strengthening their partners relative to themselves, GS is offering GoW a fail-safe security guarantee against a hypothetical GS 'backstab'.
4. The level of gpt transfer would be determined by the economic conditions, capabilities, and logistics on the ground, and thus beyond the scope of this document. It might also vary from turn to turn as is pragmatic, rather than fixed-rate deals. A rule of thumb would be 'to significantly strengthen GoW's capacity to fulfil the contract without significantly leaving GS vulnerable to a balance of power deficit in relation to their partner'.
5. Should GoW wish to take up this option, they will be enjoying an additional payment to the already-comprehensive renumeration package offered by GS in Article IV, and will also gain a security guarantee from GS. In a reciprocal gesture which would both honourably provide GS with a security guarantee from GoW, and serve the mutual interests of the fulfilment of the contract, GoW would deliver to GS the technologies of Invention and Gunpowder, with the benefits to both parties that would bring as described in Article VI

6. GS intends to deploy the economic potential of the RP refugees in protected northern Stormia to contribute to the ongoing struggle against ND, by making GPT payments to GS. It is apparent that this source of income could make a valuable net contribution to the proposed Rider Upgrade Program, thus assisting the contractual partners GoW and GS to fulfill their mission. It would be hoped that if GoW choose to partake in this program they would see the value of RP's alliance to GS in their contribution to the mutual cause.

ARTICLE VIII - Luxuries

Both parties agree to share available luxuries with each other as far as is reasonably possible.


ARTICLE IX - Strategic Resources

1. Ideally, full access by both parties should be arranged to all necessary resources - preferably under full urban control, but through trade if necessary.
2. In case of insufficient access to enough of each resource, parties with sole access should co-operate with temporary trade arrangements to allow the other side to upgrade / initiate builds.


ARTICLE X - Wonders of the World

The partners shall inform each other of what Great Wonders of the world they are planning to construct.


ARTICLE XI - Status of the Spanish nation of Roleplay

1. In addition to Article II para 3 above, GS will clarify to RP that their full co-operation with the GoW-GS contract is required under the terms of the existing protection arrangements offered to RP by GS. This co-operation will require the Spanish refugees in N.Stormia to undertake solely economic development work in their new home, with surplus commercial output being made available to GS so that it may contribute to the cause of eliminating ND.
2. Under these demilitarized conditions, RP will constitute no threat to GoW, but will instead be a net contributor to the goal of the contract.
3. Should the Spanish people not accept the terms of their continued protection by GS, perhaps for religious reasons, and given that GS has already paid a substantial price in the cause of their protection - they may elect to dissolve themselves as a nation and exit the game, delivering all holdings to GS.
4. Should the Spanish people accept the terms, and loyally demonstrate a commitment to the requirements of GS and their partners GoW, and if substantial political realignment were to take place in that nation to banish their hostile intent towards GoW, they should be allowed to return to a restricted portion of southern Spain, into areas not sharing a boundary with the intended southern borders of GoW upon completion of the contract.


ARTICLE XII - Envisioned Map and border agreements

After completion of the contract:
1. All lands north of the Bobian jungle to be GoW's
2. Land south of the jungle to be allocated to GS and other possible GoW allies in the fight against ND, in accordance with Article XI para 4.
3. Exact status of border area - tbd


ARTICLE XIII - Completion of Contract

1. Completion of contract shall be deemed to have occurred upon the delivery of the final blow to ND to remove them from the game. The satisfaction of this act shall be granted to GoW in accordance with the terms of payment above, unless both parties agree that the timing of the final act is essential for the necessary elimination of ND on that turn.
2. Upon completion, a mandatory 20 turns of peace shall exist between both parties to this contract.
3. In recognition that GS is not GoW's only potential customer, GS would seek to be given an option, prior to and close to the completion of contract, for the re-hiring of GoW in a subsequent assignment.
ARTICLE XIV - Ratification

1. Once this treaty has been signed by the representatives of each partner, those representatives are responsible for taking the contract back to be ratified by the appropriate consitutional bodies in each nation of Gathering Storm and Glory of War.

2. Upon ratification by the consitutional bodies or Glory of War and Gathering Storm and notification of this ratification in each case is sent to the other nation, this contract will go into effect and the partners will be bound by its terms.


ARTICLE XV - Amendments

This treaty may be amended if representatives of the two partners mutually agree to an amended version of the treaty and such an amended treaty is then ratified using the guidelines found in Article XIV.


Therefore, we, the representatives of the Generals of the Glory of War and the Senate of the Gathering Storm, recognizing and agreeing to abide by the above articles, here place our names, pledging our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honour.

SIGNATURES

Annex 1: The War Chickens

The steps of the Stormian Senate building are stained with the tears of mothers weeping over their captured loved ones.

Reliable cleaners are difficult to find these days, and the marble is getting so badly stained that GS were wondering whether the captured War Chickens might be returned to them before the builders have to be called in.

Last edited by Aggie on 22-11-2003 at 03:03

	22-11-2003 03:02									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't see us agreeing to this. However since they did do so much work in making it, we do owe them to give it due consideration and debate. We also need to give a answer and a brief heads up before our official statement, perhaps they will be reasonable when they see their position is hopeless.

On the matter of the announcement, there has been a setback. Lego doesn't want to do it, becasue they feel it might add to the feeling that everybody is against GS. I don't see a problem with them feeling that way(its true). If anybody would like to try harder to get Lego on board be my guest.

Aggie

	22-11-2003 20:08									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: ARTICLE XII - Envisioned Map and border agreements After completion of the contract: 1. All lands north of the Bobian jungle to be GoW's 2. Land south of the jungle to be allocated to GS and other possible GoW allies in the fight against ND, in accordance with Article XI para 4. 3. Exact status of border area - tbd

No way, the land they offer us is virtually what we currently have and two ND cities. Its even less than what Roleplay offered us to do a joint war with ND.

This is an absolute insult to us and not even an attempt on their part. We would have less than half of Bob.

Kill them all, let Lego sort them out.

	22-11-2003 20:16									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This would be conceeding to GS almost half of bob. No.

	24-11-2003 04:48									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hmm..

It took me a while to get around to reading this….Sorry.
So I guess, a response from the GoW “Kill ‘Em All” political party should be drafted…

Here is some quick idea’s that should be included.
Aggie…. Perhaps leak it as an internal memo.
A group of members who almost hold 50% of the vote. It is a cry for support from the swinging voters.

=======================================

There is no stalemate in the GoW/ND vs GS/RP war.
We have more than enough resources, military might, and allied help to wipe GS & RP off the face of Bob.
We have a technology lead and a future potential to remove them from the game if we so wish.
This contract is nothing more, than throwing a lifeline to a beaten team. The terms of the contract ensure this lifeline is not only allows GS survival but also the potential to become a world power yet again.

GoW blood, sweat & tears have been poured into this war. We met these strategist elite head-on at a time not of our choosing but theirs, when they were clearly the most powerful nation in the world. And we succeeded in not only matching their prowess, but also humbling them into a position where they must “buy” themselves out of this war.

The “Kill ‘Em All” political party was willing to entertain these negotiations to allow GS to save face, and return to their nation island with the bulk of their military intact. We will not allow the mighty nation of GoW to suddenly hand over a potentially game winning hand of land and resource ownership to GS.


GS & RP seem to be able to forget history & past events. This will never be so with GoW.
We remember the unreasonable demands from RP.
We remember the backstabbing from GS.
We remember the hatred from RP,
We remember the untrustworthiness label from GS.
We cannot yet deal with these two teams.

GS’s offer of contract gives them
A vassal who has clearly identified their sole goal in the game to destroy and backstab GoW
Enough territory which, coupled with a palace jump, gives them a second corruption free core.
Enough resources to maintain their army.
Satisfaction, that they have achieved their goal of landownership on Bob
Satisfaction that they have wasted our GA on a military war that was to be but only a few turns long.

GoW gains nothing that we do not already have, or cannot achieve through our own means.


The “Kill ‘Em All” party is willing to negotiate contracts with GS, but only after they remove their so-called “stick”. We will not negotiate under these circumstances.
There is no stalemate.
They needed 30 knights ..not 12 for their Northern invasion
They needed 60 knights ..not 20 in the south.

We do not fear them… we do not need them.

They do not offer like-for-like territory ownership for GoW on Northern Estonia.
They do not offer us Togas’s head on a stick.
They offer us war, conflict, untrust, and a neighbour on Northern Estonia who will plot against us until the end of the game. And then rub our noses into it by requiring RP to be given Bobian land yet again.

This is a crucial time for GoW. We can use GS as an ally and trading partner. But it must be negotiated from their own territory. If they wish to gift some of their limited land resources to RP..then so be it. But they cannot be allowed on Bob.

There are other contracts available and on the table.

GS are a beaten team…they simply do not know it yet.
The “Kill ‘Em All” party demand the GoW CoW deliver them and RP the final blow.

=======================================


Aggie / MZ … Edit it up as much as you want.
Do we want them to know they should of brought more knights ????

	24-11-2003 04:57									#6
	Remove this text

Or..if you want to negotiate some more

I want RP's catapults.
All of them
Even the ones GS gifted to RP....we have a pic showing how many.
GS lost the right to them when they traded them. They belong to us.


But my preference... lets stop screwing around with them. They did put a lot of effort in drafting this contract. If we have no intention of accepting it, then tell them so.

It's fair enough to use their negotiations and pauses in the war to our advantage and moving our troops into position.....but lets not string them along too much.


(God, I am getting soft)

	24-11-2003 06:11									#7
	Got spare money?

My question is why is GS trying so hard to get this done?

Two possibilities:
1) They are beaten and cannot continue in a loosing effort. This is their surrender terms.

2) They are trying to lull us into a sense of over convidence and stab us, with Lego when we least suspect it (A "lets use GOW to kill ND then strike hard and swift when their forces are out of position" line of thought).


GS, I think, has also come to terms with the fact that Lego/ND/GoW would be able to wipe them out technologically. Sure, they might currently have the most powerful economic base, but they know they can't compete in a three way.

	24-11-2003 06:14									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree with H_E's post

Lets write it up and send it at the time of most convenince... like right after GS's next turn

or very soon; GS just sent the turn to ND.

	24-11-2003 06:22									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think GS is working both sides and trying to get ND to switch also. Trying to drive a wedge between us, divide and conquer so to speak.

I think Panzer has a good idea on demanding ALL the catapults whether they have been upgraded or not.

	24-11-2003 07:06									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I told them there were different elements in GOW. Basically at the end I made a demand that I am sure they can't meet. We can also send these demands or we can just say we voted and other options won out. Personally I think drawing it out has served it's purpose. Also I'm afraid they will accept these demands.

We also can send HE's post as is and explain it is the winning side. Or we can just say.
"Thank you for your well thought out offer, however upon further review other options have won in the voting."

Aggie

	24-11-2003 07:32									#11
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I think Panzer has a good idea on demanding ALL the catapults whether they have been upgraded or not.

That's because Hot_Enamel cant think of any good ideas

	24-11-2003 07:36									#12
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Aggie "Thank you for your well thought out offer, however upon further review other options have won in the voting." Aggie

I am cool with this as well.
We can also negotiate some more.

	24-11-2003 09:57									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel That's because Hot_Enamel cant think of any good ideas

I'm sorry, I hardly see you post in this forum and sometimes forget your on this team...............

	24-11-2003 11:00									#14
	Got spare money?

Its about quality not quantity

	24-11-2003 23:43									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Proposal, only adding in some needless roleplaying.

quote: Theseus, I come before you today to inform you of GoW's official decision reguarding the contract that has been laid before us. I regret to inform you that we have chosen to take on another path than the one that has been presented by Gathering Storm. While it was a fair and just contract, well thought, and well written, we have chosen to take another path. As such, we are no longer in a position to support a Gathering Storm presence on any portion of Bob at this time and will from hence forth be working to remove such a presence. Out of deference to the manner in which you have opened negotiations and offered us this contract, we are prepared at this time to negotiate safe passage of Gathering Storm units off of Bob that the mighty War Chickens may return intact, but will not negotiate any further contracts or possible contracts until such time that Gathering Storm has been removed.

	24-11-2003 23:50									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

Now UnOrtho's gone crazy,

"Fair and just" my a$$............

	25-11-2003 00:20									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Now UnOrtho's gone crazy, "Fair and just" my a$$............

It's hard to maneuver the dagger to the backside with attitudes like that, though GF

	25-11-2003 00:44									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ok, maybe I'm just being picky, but I think that the last line should read "... until such time that Gathering Strom has been removed from Bob."

Yeah, I know that "from Bob" is infered, but I'd rather have it in writting as opposed to it being assumed.

	25-11-2003 01:43									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by donegeal Ok, maybe I'm just being picky, but I think that the last line should read "... until such time that Gathering Strom has been removed from Bob." Yeah, I know that "from Bob" is infered, but I'd rather have it in writting as opposed to it being assumed.

I agree.

I'm fine with sending the communication, with this change.

	25-11-2003 04:13									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes, this is what to send.
Aggie

	25-11-2003 05:54									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx It's hard to maneuver the dagger to the backside with attitudes like that, though GF

Sorry kinda cranky today.