22-11-2003 09:41									#1
	Hadrian's Wall Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Is this too powerful? Doubles the defense of walls and puts a wall around every city on the continent? I have to admit that this caught me totally by suprise. I'm 60 turns into The rise of Rome (Playing the Greeks) when Persia completes Hadrian's Wall. What a game turner...suddenly instead of pressing the offensive, I am finding myself trying to fend off hordes of immortals that must have decided that it was safe to leave the core cities. In addition, The Goths and Celts, who had been polite and gracious pick this moment(obviously detecting my new found weakness) to switch their alligience and attack my northern flank.

Should one wonder be able to so completely change the complexion of the game?

	22-11-2003 13:21									#2
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playing as Rome I built it. So it didn't change the game for me.

But had I not built it, it would have. It would have been much more difficult to take cities.

I probalby wouldn't have got the 20%, but I'm sure I would have still won.

The thing about this scenario is you have to watch those barb civs. They backstabbed me when I played as Rome . Diplomacy is very important in this scenario. I often just gave away techs to keep them happy.

I'll probably play as the Persians next.

	22-11-2003 18:36									#3
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quote: Should one wonder be able to so completely change the complexion of the game?

manhattan project, anyone?

	22-11-2003 18:49									#4
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quote: Originally posted by pauli manhattan project, anyone?

The manhattan project certainly does change the game, but it does it for all Civs. Hadrian's Wall gives an enormous advantage to just one Civ.

	23-11-2003 01:30									#5
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quote: Originally posted by pauli manhattan project, anyone?

I don't see this as having much impact. I can count on one hand the number of games that the AI ever used a nuke, in the last two years. Those were only in games that I played as conquest only and ran out to 2050.

	23-11-2003 04:15									#6
	Re: Hadrian's Wall Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by PLATO Is this too powerful? Doubles the defense of walls and puts a wall around every city on the continent?

So in effect it is granting superwalls to the continent? Wow - I would have thought the Great Wall's effects in the Epic game would have been enough...

	23-11-2003 06:09									#7
	Re: Hadrian's Wall Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by PLATO Is this too powerful? Doubles the defense of walls and puts a wall around every city on the continent?

I haven't tested it too make sure it's not buggy, but if it works as advertised, the GW now adds walls to all continental cities (and provides the barbarian combat bonus) but does not double the defensive bonus that walls provide.

Edit: My comments were directed at the Great Wall in the epic (random) game -- the Hadrian's Wall wonder in Rise of Rome does indeed provide both free walls and double their defensive bonus.

Catt

	23-11-2003 09:11									#8
	Re: Re: Hadrian's Wall Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Catt the Hadrian's Wall wonder in Rise of Rome does indeed provide both free walls and double their defensive bonus. Catt

As my poor hoplites so fatally discovered

Persia and Greece seem fairly balanced in this scenario. Playing Greece, I had successfully seized two Persian Cities and was feeling fairly good about the offensive and then Persia built Hadrian's Wall...That effectively ended the offensive. Interestingly, the AI launched a major counter offensive very shortly after this and it was using Stacks. Fortunately I was able to move sufficient troops from Greece by Galley to stave off the first couple of waves, but more are on the way. The stripping of the Homeland defense caused the Goths and the Celts to try my northern boarder even though we had polite relations to that point. IMO these combined effects of finishing a GW are way to much...IMO just the double bonus of all walls and double bonus is to much. However, we wll fight on!