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David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 21:00 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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Howard Dean - Draft Dodger? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

33 Years Later, Draft Becomes Topic for Dean
By RICK LYMAN and CHRISTOPHER DREW

n the winter of 1970, a 21-year-old student from Yale walked into his armed services physical in New York carrying X-rays and a letter from his orthopedist, eager to know whether a back condition might keep him out of the military draft.

This was not an uncommon scene in 1970, when medical deferments were a frequently used avenue for those reluctant to take part in the unpopular war in Vietnam. And this story would have little interest save that Howard Dean was the name of the young man. Now, 33 years later, he finds himself a leading Democrat in the quest for the party's nomination to be president of the United States.

Dr. Dean got the medical deferment, but in a recent interview he said he probably could have served had he not mentioned the condition.

"I guess that's probably true," he said. "I mean, I was in no hurry to get into the military."

But now that he is running for president, in a race when many Democrats believe they need a candidate with strong national security credentials to challenge President Bush, the choices Dr. Dean, a former Vermont governor, made 33 years ago are providing ammunition for critics.

Senator John Kerry and Gen. Wesley K. Clark, two of his strongest challengers for the Democratic nomination, have recently started running advertisements highlighting their military experience. And all the Democratic candidates except Carol Moseley Braun had to face the possibility of being drafted during the Vietnam War.

In the 10 months after his graduation from Yale, time he might otherwise have spent in uniform, Dr. Dean lived the life of a ski bum in Aspen, Colo. His back condition did not affect his skiing the way the rigors of military service would have, he said, nor did it prevent him from taking odd jobs like pouring concrete in the warm months and washing dishes when it got cold.

Even the candidate's mother, Andree Maitland Dean, said in a recent interview about his skiing after receiving a medical deferment, "Yeah, that looks bad."

But, she said, that is the nature of his condition. It is aggravated by certain kinds of physical activity but not all kinds, she said. The condition is called spondylolysis, a low-back pain that sometimes radiates into the legs, according to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons' online information site.

Dr. Dean said it was the military's decision to grant him the deferment, but he also said he was eager to get it. Had he wanted to serve, he probably could have.

Ever since the first politicians who came of draft age during the Vietnam War rose to the national stage, the question has been a recurring one: Did you serve in Southeast Asia, or did you take a different path?

Dan Quayle, the Republican vice-presidential candidate in 1988, was criticized by opponents who said he had used family connections to land a spot in the Indiana National Guard, which he denied doing. In 2000, George W. Bush drew similar attacks and issued a similar denial for landing his spot in the Texas Air National Guard. And Bill Clinton's machinations to avoid military service led to accusations that he was a draft-dodging product of the 1960's, a label he was never entirely able to shake.

In each case, the answer did not prevent the candidates from winning. But Mr. Quayle was running with the senior George Bush, a former World War II pilot with combat experience, and by the time Mr. Clinton and George W. Bush sought the presidency, the cold war had ended and defense had receded as an issue. The terrorist attacks of 9/11 and the war in Iraq have changed that, and national security will probably rival the economy as a major issue in next year's campaign.

Dr. Dean may well draw the early heat on the issue because he has pushed near the front of the Democratic pack. Beyond that, two of his opponents — General Clark, a West Point graduate who served in Vietnam and rose to command NATO forces, and Mr. Kerry, who served two tours in Vietnam and came away with a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts — regularly remind voters of their military credentials.

The other candidates are less likely to make it an issue because they did not serve in Vietnam either.

*********************

Hmmm, interesting. Of course, this makes me like Dean more (and makes me slightly more likely to vote for him) - anyone who took the high road of getting out of the draft, AND is honest about it, gets high marks from me

And the best thing is, if he gets nominated, Bush can't really make it an issue. Yes, Mr. I-Got-Into-the-Texas-Air-National-Guard-Because-Of-Daddy's-Connections is going to make military service in Vietnam a biiig issue

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 21:07
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Well Bush can't make it an issue, though Kerry and Clark can.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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  Old Post 22-11-2003 21:09 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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They could, but I wouldn't think it would be as much of a problem for most Democratic voters as it would for Republican ones. Who knows, though.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 22-11-2003 22:24
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The people that choose the Dem nomination aren't going to care unless you have a tape of him praising Newt or Bush. Near fanatical hatred will do that to you. It may hurt him in the general election though.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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  Old Post 22-11-2003 22:38 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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I just find it hard to see how military service could be a major issue in a Dean-Bush matchup.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 22-11-2003 22:42
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I wasn't aware that I said it would be a major issue.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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  Old Post 22-11-2003 22:47 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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Minor quibble.

Now come on out, Slowwhand and other pro-military types! Feed me! Gah!

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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  Old Post 22-11-2003 23:00
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Tired of ads?

Clark was/is the person the pro-military type inclined to vote Democrat is likely to support. Trolling about Dean won't get you many bites.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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the draft was unconstitutional, so that's okay

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
  Old Post 23-11-2003 12:01
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Suffering from ads?

quote:
the draft was unconstitutional


Eh? You'd have to prove a statement like that.

And yes, this is a problem for Dean, especially against Clark.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Clark was/is the person the pro-military type inclined to vote Democrat is likely to support. Trolling about Dean won't get you many bites.


Bingo. Sorry Floyd, try different bait next time.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
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  Old Post 23-11-2003 12:14 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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You're talking about the same guy who will continue to deal with the trauma of losing his brother from the Vietnam War.

So glad you can beat up a guy when he's already down -- way to go.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 23-11-2003 12:19
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It's called politics. Get used to it.

Then again, I wonder if that is the same as Al Gore losing his sister to tobacco after making most of his money from it.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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  Old Post 23-11-2003 12:20
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"The trauma of losing your brother" didn't give you a pass. And it's a hell of lot less traumatic than getting your own ass blown away.

And Dean is hardly "already down."

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 23-11-2003 12:21 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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He's not down, but something like that would affect him for the rest of his life.

I'm sure others who have lost a family member from a war, would understand what I'm talking about.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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So does that give him a free pass on the issue? If your brother died from a cocaine overdose, does that give you a free pass on the issue of drug use?

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 23-11-2003 12:23 Visit Dis's homepage!
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one of those deaths is more sympathetic from the american public than the other

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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  Old Post 23-11-2003 12:25
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Doesn't matter. You don't get a 'free pass' on an issue because your brother died doing X.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
He's not down, but something like that would affect him for the rest of his life.

I'm sure others who have lost a family member from a war, would understand what I'm talking about.


I've lost several - brother and two uncles, either directly or from war related injuries/issues. It doesn't give you a pass, and whether something happening to a family member would "affect you" is irrelevant to your own conduct.

TCO is offline TCO
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  Old Post 23-11-2003 21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
You're talking about the same guy who will continue to deal with the trauma of losing his brother from the Vietnam War.

So glad you can beat up a guy when he's already down -- way to go.


His brother was not in the war. He was doing activities not related to the war. He just got killed in Laos. Could happen in South America.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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  Old Post 23-11-2003 22:40 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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Re: Howard Dean - Draft Dodger Got spare money?

If Howard Dean is a Draft Dodger that should clinch him the Democratic nomination. The Democrats tend to do well with draft dodgers.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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  Old Post 24-11-2003 00:29 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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quote:
Bingo. Sorry Floyd, try different bait next time.


The bait wasn't what you thought it was - maybe I made it too subtle this time around. I was trying to get a screaming match going about the draft again

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 24-11-2003 01:13
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

No one cares.

TCO is offline TCO
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 24-11-2003 01:39
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd


The bait wasn't what you thought it was - maybe I made it too subtle this time around. I was trying to get a screaming match going about the draft again


Coming from the guy who talks about joining a militia...but who registered like a little lamb to make sure that he could get time with the UT coeds. Go drink your sorrows on 6th avenue or 5th avenue or whatever it is.

(Is this over the line, Ming?)

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
If Howard Dean is a Draft Dodger that should clinch him the Democratic nomination. The Democrats tend to do well with draft dodgers.


So do the Republicans. Look at all their current leading members, most of 'em draft dodgers. The ones who ain't, like McCain, aren't too popular among the party leadership.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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  Old Post 24-11-2003 11:12
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quote:
(Is this over the line, Ming?)


Since when is the truth over the line?

TCO is offline TCO
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  Old Post 25-11-2003 04:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
(Is this over the line, Ming?)


Since when is the truth over the line?


I guess it was ok, what I said about self/edge also...

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