22-11-2003 21:52									#1
	MSN - Chat with Kody Increase the size of your Attachments

I had a chat with Kody. He had some good suggestions about the restruction of the team. I will do a summary later when I have more time. But basically the one that I liked is that since he is not here any more we should forgot about how he has been doing things and start to think from beginning how we would be doing things. And to make a fresh start. I'm attaching the chat for anybody who's interested to read.

	22-11-2003 21:52									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

HongHu : John! How are you?
Kody : I'm good
Kody : how's things
HongHu : we are having great fun trying Jamski
HongHu : You want the transcript?
HongHu : we will publish it in Pravda soon
Kody : heh okay
HongHu : I'm trying to get everybody come back first
HongHu : and then maybe we can get the game going a little better sigh
Kody : that's a task
HongHu : I know
HongHu : at least now the forum is alive again
HongHu : micha and jamski were doing german spam
Kody : I don't want to see how how screwed up the turn is though
HongHu : sigh
HongHu : jamski should have read your post before he post
Kody : I was first hoping I could prep him on all the major plans
HongHu : the thing is it took you more time to do the turn than him since you plan things more carefully
HongHu : sigh
Kody : and he might be able to take the next one
HongHu : and bad thing is he is not on msn
Kody : well the main problem is he didn't have clue what we were doing
HongHu : I know
Kody : yeah he didn't get on msn the whole time
HongHu : he did admit that he wants your turn to be used
Kody : and he did the turn in 15 minutes
HongHu : exactly
HongHu : but since his turn was posted first we were stuck on that one
Kody : his turn was only posted first by 2-5 minutes
HongHu : and peace was already crying foul
HongHu : really?
HongHu : sigh
Kody : yeah
HongHu : if only he quietly removed his turn
Kody : if I hadn't been delayed informing people about the university betraying us
HongHu : rather than making it a show by the coup
Kody : if only he hadn't announced that his turn was the official one
HongHu : sigh
HongHu : and uni downloaded his turn
HongHu : back and force
Kody : the university actually didn't get the real turn until hours later
Kody : because the first save he posted couldn't be opened
HongHu : I know
HongHu : and if he just say that your turn was the zipped correct one
HongHu : then we would be ok from the beginning
HongHu : but he is too hotheaded I guess
Kody : yep
HongHu : well that is roleplaying
HongHu : so we sacrifice the game for it
HongHu : it's ok I guess
Kody : is the hive going to declare war against the university?
HongHu : we'll survive
Kody : since they reinvaded our land
HongHu : jamski is plan to talk to GT AFAIK
HongHu : to make sure it is not a mistake
HongHu : actually we haven't talked a lot about the next turn yet
HongHu : somehow I feel that I will have to take the lead in starting the discussion
Kody : figures
HongHu : I already started a little
HongHu : fading in
HongHu : hopefully by the time this trial ends
HongHu : we'll be able to do more discussions
Kody : how could have possibly make a mistake like that
HongHu : I'm trying to get voltaire to work more too
Kody : they landed the unit only 2 squares away
HongHu : what
HongHu : I see what you mean
HongHu : I'll talk to jamski
HongHu : my problem is I have time on the forum
Kody : basically they moved it out of our sight
HongHu : but not with the game
Kody : then relanded it
HongHu : so I don't know the game as well as you
HongHu : far less
HongHu : I see
Kody : hrmm
HongHu : so when jamski talked about things I don't have a sense whether it is right or wrong
Kody : I wonder if jamski did the hive rebuild
HongHu : very doubtfully
Kody : because you could roleplay something cool from the b-drone shifting
HongHu : yes?
Kody : darn
HongHu : ahh bdrone shifting in other factions
Kody : because the b-drone shifting will probably give the university some extra drones
HongHu : I still need to learn the bdrone thing
HongHu : ok
Kody : and we could roleplay it as our rightous fury
HongHu : that's good
HongHu : yes
Kody : but the longer we hold it off
Kody : the less effective it will be
HongHu : the next turn?
HongHu : oh the rebuild
Kody : well it was supposed to be this turn
HongHu : got you
Kody : but rokossovky stuffed up
HongHu : I need to check that with jamski
Kody : and it got delayed
HongHu : so next turn probably then?
Kody : if jamski stuffed it again it'll be delayed again I suppose
HongHu : sigh
HongHu : what condition do we need
Kody : hive rebuilds
Kody : it makes a colony pod next turn
HongHu : ok
HongHu : and just build a base
Kody : I think if we don't do it fairly soon. hive will grow again
HongHu : so how could him make a mistake
Kody : and it will be delayed an 3rd turn
HongHu : you mean we have to rush it
HongHu : I got you
Kody : he needed to set a colony pod to build
HongHu : oh the hive is not even building the pod yet?
Kody : or he could have realloacted the minerals
HongHu : I see
Kody : well he could have switched it
HongHu : maybe I'll have sometime to look at the turn tonight
HongHu : I'll go check that
Kody : you know the hive would be 50% stronger if I had been running the last 3 turns
HongHu : I know
Kody : crazy
Kody : I never imagined we would fall that much
HongHu : you know in the forum people are still talking about you so much
HongHu : I think maybe we should go ahead perm pact with cc
Kody : also ecological engineering was 2148
HongHu : and go to war soon and get this game finished
Kody : not sure how much it's delayed now
HongHu : hmmm
Kody : well
HongHu : I was wanting to get people do all the summaries
Kody : you need to stay on the drone's good side
HongHu : but maybe I have to do it myself
HongHu : yes I was thinking 3 way pact again
HongHu : just use the speed game up argument with buster
Kody : you have to get buster to agree
Kody : and I'm not sure he will
HongHu : see if he can agree to it
HongHu : he knows the game's not going very actively
HongHu : so maybe he'll change his mind
Kody : he has lots of inactive games
HongHu : my problem is I'm not very familiar with him
HongHu : so need somebody else to talk to him
HongHu : well a demo game is different than a pbem
HongHu : demo game needs participation
HongHu : if we can't then it dies
HongHu : it almost died this time didn't it
Kody : he's playing this demo game as a pbem/training exercise
HongHu : if it were not you and me basically
HongHu : I know
HongHu : I don't know worth a try
Kody : so that means he's not really after participation from the other teams
HongHu : I know
Kody : just wants hive to stay releatively strong
HongHu : depending on how understandable he is to others I suppose
Kody : and his team to still be interested
Kody : His team is still fairly strong
HongHu : yes
Kody : compared to how it started anyway
HongHu : buster has been playing it
Kody : heh
Kody : he still gets advice from his team
HongHu : unlike us you don't play anymore
Kody : well my work is important
HongHu : I understand
HongHu : actually I have put off my work again for the sake of Hive
Kody : it will effect the next 20 years of my life if I fail my confirmation
HongHu : and I have to catch up this weekend
Kody : it's in about 3 months time
HongHu : yes you need to do that
Kody : maybe it shouldn't be control
HongHu : it is very much more important
Kody : you know the hive always thinks of it's turns as control and power
HongHu : sadly that's true
Kody : maybe we should emphasise learning
Kody : I tried to do that
Kody : but nobody was interested in learning
HongHu : I wonder why couldn't we do organized cooperation
HongHu : I'm hoping dacole can be the one
HongHu : but he's been frustrated by roko I think
Kody : we should do turn rotation
HongHu : he tried to help but roko ignored him
Kody : rokovossovky tried to get him to do all the grunt work
HongHu : very hard to start now
Kody : basically the really mundane things I used to do
HongHu : if we don't want to risk losing
HongHu : important steps
Kody : eg like, updating turn
Kody : well I think you risk far more by playing badly continously
HongHu : thing is can one like me do a turn without messing up the progress
Kody : then playing very badly, but improving later
HongHu : well if everybody plays badly
Kody : well if jamski has messed up the progress like I think he did
HongHu : then who can help?
Kody : then just about all the plans I had are basically over
HongHu : sigh
HongHu : see if jamski messes up badly
HongHu : that means I probably will mess up even more
Kody : so the things that are still running
Kody : heh it means you will get to start with a cleaner slate
HongHu : lol
HongHu : a white paper can have a better picture drawn than a already messed up one
Kody : kindof annoyed we're probably not going to get ecological engineering completed in turn 2148
Kody : yep
HongHu : problem is who's gonna draw on it?
Kody : maybe you should try everyone
HongHu : and still hope that the picture is gonna be great?
Kody : you should probably make it clear to googlie that the hive will head downhill pretty fast
HongHu : yes?
HongHu : what would that help
Kody : because googlie has been trying to balance things so the hive is pushed down
HongHu : hmmm?
Kody : I think one of the reasons why he decided to use jamski's turn
HongHu : are you talking about his adjustment of AIs?
Kody : is because he thinks the game is in the bag
HongHu : ah I see
Kody : for the hive and the drones
HongHu : ok I'll try talk to him about that
HongHu : it's so useful if one can use msn to talk
Kody : but personally I think with our current setup we'll have a hard time winning
HongHu : but I don't have those guys msn
HongHu : pm is not as effective
HongHu : sigh
HongHu : you know I don't really thing that matters that much any more
HongHu : as long as we still get people who participate
HongHu : that's about better than any other result we can even hope
Kody : yeah probably not
Kody : but I think it matters to googlie
Kody : he doesn't want the victory to be a sure thing yet
HongHu : I agree
Kody : and everyone was saying it was a sure thing
HongHu : Have you talked to dacole?
Kody : but everyone assumed I was going to continue playing
HongHu : do you know how much potential he holds?
Kody : and that's why I was so stressed about the turns, while others weren't
HongHu : I'm hopeing he can be somebody taht can learn to play as you did before
Kody : dacole is about the same level as you
Kody : in potential I think
Kody : well he's current ability is
Kody : talk to chairman
Kody : and tell him that rokossovky might be locking other possible players out
HongHu : I don't think he knows much nore
HongHu : m
HongHu : roko is not active now
HongHu : so he doesn't matter much
Kody : oh good grief
HongHu : sigh I know
Kody : start with a real clean slate
HongHu : well he's the one that held the turn
Kody : it's too much effort explaining all the plans
HongHu : I tried to engage him on msn couple times with others talking about the game
HongHu : but he left soon every time
Kody : and people usually excute their own plans better than someone else's
HongHu : have not come back to the forum
Kody : yep
HongHu : I know
Kody : he doesn't want the responsibility
HongHu : I know you have spend quite some time with roko
HongHu : sigh
Kody : basically tell chairman we need to rethink our plans with a clean slate
HongHu : yes
Kody : and talk to buster about the general plans you come up with
HongHu : what better plan could I come up with?
Kody : he will be alot of help, I actually passed most of my plans past buster and adjusted what I was doing accordingly
Kody : your own plan
Kody : involve more than yourself
Kody : make it group planning session
HongHu : and problem is I'm not sure jamski and others will be as you and me
HongHu : in aspect of listening to others suggestions
Kody : make it clear that things are starting with a clean slate
Kody : well the thing is they don't understand the plans I was doing
HongHu : I agree
Kody : it took me about 15 hours of MSN over a week to explain to rokossovky
HongHu : sigh
Kody : so that means it's probably better to start afresh
HongHu : ok
Kody : talk to dacole and jamski and anyone else that will listen
HongHu : talking to you have made my mind much clearer
Kody : do a group planning session
HongHu : ok
Kody : you see you could use my techniques
Kody : but if you don't understand them
Kody : you won't be able to use them very well
HongHu : Kody will not play for us now. We will not be able to play as he used to do. So what are we going to do?
Kody : so that means it's better to spend your time coming up with things you can understand and follow through
HongHu : yes I agree
HongHu : entirely
Kody : use what people did understand from what I used to do
Kody : but discard anything you didn't understand
HongHu : I admit that I wasn't thinking that we should start over from planning before I talk to you
HongHu : yes
Kody : the time spent understanding something I used to do is better spent figuring out the more basic stuff
HongHu : yes
HongHu : I will try to start a discussion in this direction
Kody : one thing, you should do is double check the turns
HongHu : after it is done?
Kody : yeah
HongHu : you mean another player
HongHu : make sure one player has not made mistakes
Kody : well the turn player should double check himself
HongHu : ok
Kody : but another player should check too
HongHu : yes
Kody : if possible before the turn is posted
HongHu : I think I need to post this to the forum
Kody : the most important thing I think now for the hive is
HongHu : there are many good advises that others should read
Kody : * turn player double checks his own turns
HongHu : lol ok
Kody : 2nd more important
HongHu : yes?
Kody : * someone else should always look at the turn and comment on mistakes (before turn is posted if possible, but after too)
HongHu : ok
Kody : that helps so that at least one other person knows what's going on
HongHu : that's right
Kody : * third most important thing is dipolmancy
HongHu : I agree
Kody : keep drones on our side
Kody : and also still be nice to the pirates and the cycon
HongHu : definitely
HongHu : yes
Kody : communicate with them now and again, to say hello and make them feel that they're important to us
HongHu : ok
Kody : ignoring them can drive them onto the university's side
HongHu : yes that's probably right
HongHu : especially with peace
Kody : anyway those are the basics that I started with when I first played the turns
Kody : although I couldn't find anyone movitated enough to double check my turns
HongHu : you know I was really hoping we could finish this game right now by everybody stand behind hive as the supreme leader
HongHu :
Kody : from there you can build up a playing technique again
HongHu : yes
Kody : sif
Kody : even the drones wouldn't be entirely happy
Kody : I think the drones want to kick some butt first
HongHu : I know
Kody : or at least have a first battle
HongHu : yes
HongHu : that wouldn't be a problem would it
Kody : cycon want to progress further into the game to see how they would do
HongHu : ?
Kody : pirates want to win themselves
HongHu : I know
Kody : university just dislike us
HongHu : lol
Kody : not surprised really
HongHu : the turn player's changed though
Kody : Rokossovky called them "looniversity"
HongHu : I've been smooshing him over there today
Kody : and the turn rokossovky did that
Kody : they relanded their scout
HongHu : wow
HongHu : you think it is related
Kody : makes you wonder if those things are related
Kody : not sure
HongHu : you know what you always think much deeper than I do
Kody : maybe they were always planning that
HongHu : I just take things for granted
Kody : I look for details
HongHu : yea
Kody : because details gives you slight advantages
HongHu : that's where my weakness is
HongHu : I know
HongHu : it is a great loss to us that you can't be here
Kody : personally I reckon they were alwas planning to invade us again
HongHu : who knows maybe after 3 months we are still hanging
HongHu : maybe then you can come back to us
Kody : because they never replied back to diplomatic messages
HongHu : univ invade hive wow
HongHu : hmmm
Kody : well they've got their scout relanded
HongHu : I know
HongHu : what can one scout do though
HongHu : explor perhaps
HongHu : wants to know more about us?
Kody : yeah
HongHu : that doesn't mean war immediately
Kody : but I think they wanted to move the scout in and threaten a base
HongHu : they don't really hope they can win the war with one scout?
Kody : they were hoping we wouldn't notice
HongHu : hmmm
Kody : no they just wanted to hinder us
HongHu : yea
Kody : and prepare for invasion later
Kody : by having our maps
HongHu : we'll have to talk about this over in the Hive
HongHu : I agree
Kody : also threatening us with the scout might get them certain concessions from us
HongHu : well they should know better than this
Kody : problem is jamski didn't find the scout
HongHu : wow
Kody : we'll we've made it so clear we're at war
HongHu : hmmm
Kody : they don't really lose that much by acting aggressive towards us
HongHu : I agree
HongHu : we were at treaty though right?
Kody : yeah still
Kody : although they broke the terms of the treaty
HongHu : anyway I will remember all what you talked about today
Kody : basically we treatied when they agreed to remove their scout
HongHu : I know
Kody : heh why bother remembering, just save the conversation
HongHu : lol
HongHu : the thing is you'd hope everybody reads it
HongHu : but maybe not
HongHu : so I need to remember this and try tell everybody again
Kody : well actually I'm not that worried about the hive anymore
HongHu : anyway it is good that I talked to you
Kody : real life concerns worry me more nowadays
HongHu : I will try to keep in touch with you off and on
HongHu : but yea go ahead focus on your own project
Kody : *nod*
HongHu : for this IS really really more important
HongHu : I can never stress that enough
HongHu : so good luck to you onthat
Kody : thanks
HongHu : and hopefully you'll come back in 3 months :d
HongHu : I'll talk to you later then
Kody : we'll see
HongHu : I'm pretty sure I'll still be here
Kody : okay cya then
HongHu :
HongHu : in 3 month I mean
HongHu : got to do some work tonight
HongHu : bye
Kody : you know I kind wanted to test my skills in a PBEM sometime
Kody : see how if I really am good
Kody : or was just mostly lucky with the hive
Kody : cya
HongHu : oh I'm sure you won't find an equal opponent
HongHu : I should have asked you to fill in my pbem
HongHu : t-ras left
HongHu : my pact brother
HongHu : but hercules said he's gonna join
HongHu : t-ras's got such big problems right now
HongHu : his two sps got destroyed
HongHu : all bases in riots
HongHu : it'd be a nice challenge for you
HongHu : I thought about you but didn't want to ask you since I know you are busy
HongHu : well ok ttyl

	22-11-2003 22:26									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Looks like I f'cked it up

-Jam

	22-11-2003 23:39									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

What a great revelation.

	22-11-2003 23:57									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

At least I'm man enough to admit it.

-Jam

	23-11-2003 01:27									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yes you are. And I know you'll lead us to glory, will you not?

	23-11-2003 18:52									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, I will, I'm glad you see that too

-Jam

	25-11-2003 04:20									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

ok when do you want to have a chat on plans? I am sorry roskosvy left. Who ever you want to play the turns I can check them over. Will be posting another topic explaining my beef with him, how we should proceed. One thing though WE Need to start haveing weekly planning meetings!!!!! Find times when jam HongHu and who ever else is still here is around!!

	25-11-2003 09:52									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Jamski can't get on MSN now. Please see my posts in the hello thread for some of my thoughts.