25-11-2003 20:02									#1
	C3C: Jacking w/ the Aztecs' traits Support Apolyton

Do you think that the change to the Aztecs' trait from Religious to Agricultural was a good choice?

It seemed to me to make more sense for the Aztecs to be Religious/Militaristic (as they were previously) than to be Agricultural/Militaristic.

The Agricultural trait seems to be a fairly good one, but I just don't think that the Aztecs IRL were using any Agricultural traits as they were cutting-out the still beating hearts of their enemys and feeding them to the eagles high atop a large stone pyramid. That just seems to be Religious in nature. Not to mention that most of the slaves whom were sacrificed had been captured in war, or barring any military action they would use their own citizens. So, the Religious/Militaristic combo seems to fit the Aztecs better than Ag/Mil.

Obviously, the Aztecs IRL 'were' able to feed themselves--as were every other culture about which we can only read historical accounts, but with my limited study of Mesoamerican history, it just seems that Firaxis/BreakAway should not have jacked w/ the Aztecs. I mean they've been around since the first Civ3. I mean IRL, the Americans produce more food than any other nation in the world. They didn't make the Americans Agricultural.

I know that Civ is NOT Real Life and that parrallells are only coincidental. Plus, the combo of Religious/Militaristic was sort of 'overdone' in PTW. Most of the Rel/Mil civs have been changed to Seafaring or Agricultural and that's OK with me, but I just don't think that they did the Aztecs justice with this change.

What do you think?

	25-11-2003 22:18									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Although I will be happy with the Aztecs no matter how they are (IF we even GET C3C in the Czech Republic), your dry humor is so fantastic that I'm finally going to use a sig just so that I can quote it.

USC

	25-11-2003 23:26									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hmmm... I stopped playing with Aztecs in PTW 'cause they were only useful for 4 turns before the AI was retaliating with knights. Now that C3C has slowed the AI progression down, they might be worth a revisit.

I think the Agri trait is overrated - everyone's ranting on about it but so far in all my games, it's really only been "noticeable" once. 'course, I also dislike the scientific trait 'cause, whoo-hoo, a free tech every era just brings me to 4-5 techs behind the AI.

	26-11-2003 00:51									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm much more upset (if you could call it that ) that my Iroquois have been changed. I loved Rel/exp +MW. But now...probably won't play them much again.

	26-11-2003 02:01									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

well agricultural fits them, but so does religious and militaristic.

I think I saw a civ with 3 traits once in a scenario. Is that possible?

Of course that would be overpowering to say the least. I used to love playing the Aztecs. Though I eventually gravitated towards the Japanese (same traits), because they had a later uu and later golden age.

	05-12-2003 09:35									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I think I saw a civ with 3 traits once in a scenario. Is that possible?

Dissident, Yes, this is possible. In the editor, all the traits are checkboxes. If one so desired, he/she could give one (or more) civ ALL the traits, or mix and match, whatever.

	06-12-2003 21:39									#7
	Re: C3C: Jacking w/ the Aztecs' traits Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by steven8r Obviously, the Aztecs IRL 'were' able to feed themselves--as were every other culture about which we can only read historical accounts, but with my limited study of Mesoamerican history, it just seems that Firaxis/BreakAway should not have jacked w/ the Aztecs.

Actually, you bring up an interesting point. You are incorrect, the Aztecs, in fact, could not feed themselves. Yes, at first they could, but when the conquered their empire, they grew to rely more and more upon tribute from their subjects.

There was a problem, however; their subjects were also the source of their sacrifices. The more sacrifices they took, the less food they were able to grow. The less food, the less tribute, which meant problems in Tenochitlan. Obviously, since they were having problems, the gods must be displeased, so more sacrifices were needed. Thus a vicious circle was created.

The reason Cortez was able to conquer the Aztec empire so easily is because it was already about to collapse. All someone had to do was blow at it, and it would fall over.

So, I would have to say, that agricultural is definately NOT warrented. The reason, however, I think they got agricultural is because of the floating farms surrounding te capital.

	06-12-2003 22:47									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'd prefer they be Religious and Agricultural. Let me explain my reasoning: the Aztecs were militaristic BECAUSE they were religious. They went to war just to get prisoners to sacrifice so the sun would rise. Failing that, they had wars amongst themselves! (Garland wars)

quote: But the Aztec theologians also developed the notion that the gods are best nourished by the living hearts of sacrificed captives; the braver the captive, the more nourishing the sacrifice. This theology led to widespread wars of conquest in search of sacrificial victims both captured in war and paid as tribute by a conquered people.