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Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
time: 23:32
  Old Post 25-11-2003 20:54
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Army Reserve battles an exodus Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Army Reserve battles an exodus

Branch misses its retention goal by 6.7 percent

By Robert Schlesinger
The Boston Globe

WASHINGTON | The U.S. Army Reserve fell short of its re-enlistment goals this fiscal year, underscoring Pentagon fears that the protracted conflict in Iraq could cause a crippling exodus from the armed services.

The Army Reserve has missed its retention goal by 6.7 percent, the second shortfall since fiscal 1997. It was largely the result of a larger than expected exodus of career reservists, a loss of valuable skills because such staff members are responsible for training junior officers and operating complex weapons systems.

‘‘The Army has invested an enormous amount of money in training these people, and they’re very hard to replace,’’ said John Pike of globalsecurity.org, an independent research group in Washington, D.C.

With extended deployments and increasingly deadly attacks by Iraqi guerrillas, Defense Department officials are scrambling to combat a broader downturn in retention and recruitment that they fear is on the horizon.

The U.S. Army, the primary service deployed in Iraq, is offering re-enlistment bonuses of $5,000 for soldiers serving there. The Army National Guard is extending an official thank-you to members by arranging services to honor returning soldiers. The Massachusetts National Guard is offering rewards ranging from plaques to NASCAR tickets to members who lure recruits. And throughout the branches, recruitment advertising is up and programs are being launched to make the military seem more family-friendly.

The Army also is resorting to a policy called ‘‘stop loss’’ that allows the Pentagon to indefinitely keep soldiers from leaving the service once their time has expired. The policy, used during war, is designed to prevent staffing shortfalls in key sectors.

As the military ponders unpalatable measures — further Reserve or Guard call-ups, back-to-back tours of duty — to fill the global obligations, any personnel shortfalls could prove disastrous.

‘‘It’s a slippery slope in the sense that there’s kind of a snowball effect,’’ said Andrew F. Krepinevich, executive director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a Washington, D.C., think tank that focuses on defense issues. ‘‘It’s very difficult to work your way out of, very difficult to put Humpty Dumpty back together again once you break the force.’’

While Pentagon officials have insisted that recruiting and retention figures are mostly at or above expected levels, thanks in part to a soft economy that offers little competition, signs of trouble are emerging. Recruiting for the Massachusetts National Guard, a backup to the professional Army and Air Force, was down 30 percent this year. Nationwide, the Army National Guard has fallen 13 percent short of its recruiting goal, although that deficit was offset by fewer than expected troops leaving the service.

Sgt. Maj. James Vales, senior Army counselor in charge of overseeing active-duty retention policy, said his shop of 740 career counselors has been answering concerns from members of Congress and Army leaders about trying to prevent a talent drain.

‘‘We have some things in the works to kind of offset any problems that we may see in retention,’’ Vales said, citing options ranging from family-friendly policies like support groups and child care to his most important tool: cash. ‘‘Most of (the effort) is increasing our retention bonus dollars. . . . The biggest thing soldiers respond to is monetary incentives.’’

It was the second time in the past seven years that the Reserve has fallen below its intended reenlistment figure, according to Steve Stromvall, an Army Reserve spokesman. In the 12 months that concluded at the end of September 2001, the Reserves was 1 percent short of its number.

That the shortfall was entirely among career soldiers is important because they are considered the Army’s backbone.

‘‘They’re critically important,’’ said Cindy Williams, a specialist on military personnel issues with MIT’s Security Studies Program. ‘‘That’s where the leadership is going to come from in the next decade.’’

They are people like Staff Sergeant Scott Durst, a 15-year veteran of the Army Reserve who extended his enlistment after a tour in Bosnia but will not sign on for another tour after Iraq, though it will means he loses the opportunity for retirement benefits.

‘‘Not even a chance, no,’’ said his wife Nancy Durst, a high school art teacher. ‘‘He didn’t sign up to be a Reserve to be doing active-duty orders every year.’’

She added that her husband, a member of the 94th Military Police Company, has spent too much time away from their home in southern Maine and their two teenage daughters.

‘‘I fear there will be a negative impact on retention of these Guard and Reserve personnel,’’ said Senator Susan Collins, a Republican of Maine who sits on the personnel subcommittee of the Senate Armed Services Committee. ‘‘There’s an old saying in the Army that they enlist the soldier but reenlist the family, and the new one-year ‘boots on the ground’ policy for service in Iraq has really upset a lot of the families with whom I’ve talked.’’

According to internal Pentagon surveys conducted last spring and summer, the overall percentage of troops intending to reenlist remained steady from last year, at 58 percent. But among those serving in Iraq, only 54 percent who were surveyed agreed, while 46 percent said they did not want to reenlist.

Michael O’Hanlon, a defense specialist at the Washington-based Brookings Institution, called the figures ‘‘at the threshold of tolerable. In and of themselves they’re not catastrophic, but the problem is they could get worse because as people increasingly confirm the reality of returning to Iraq another time these numbers can be expected to drop further. If you wait too long to address the trends, then it’s too late.’’

In 2003, the Army’s retention goal was 67 percent.

Like the recruiting shortfall in the Guard, the Reserve’s 2003 retention figure, which was off by slightly less than 100 soldiers, was offset by stronger than expected recruiting.

The Army, which oversees the bulk of troops in Iraq, is not the only branch of the armed services facing hardships in recruitment and retention because of the Iraq war.

Air Force Major Joe Allegretti, chief of the Defense Department’s Joint Recruiting Advertising Program, cited a poll of youths conducted from April through June in which half said the war in Iraq made them less likely to join the military, and only one-third said it made them more likely to join.


Reserve and Guard leaders are working to improve relations with stateside families by setting up support networks, including ‘‘marriage enhancement seminars’’ run through the Army Reserve’s chaplaincy and designed to address such issues as long separations during deployments.

Guard leaders also have sent teams into Iraq to work on the problem. Several soldiers spread between Iraq and Kuwait try to act as trouble-shooters for unhappy Guard members, checking back twice weekly with Guard headquarters in the United States, said Colonel Frank Grass, the Guard’s chief of operations.

And thanks to ‘‘stop loss,’’ members of the Guard and Reserve cannot leave the military until 90 days after they have been deactivated.

Robert Schlesinger can be reached at schlesinger@globe.com.




I guess they don't buy the "one weekend a month" BS...

Dis is offline Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 02:12 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Got spare money?

not with this psycho president

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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Jan 2002
time: 06:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 02:22
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Why am I not surprised?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 02:31 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Do you feel a draft?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 02:32
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It's true. Just about everyone I know in the reserves are saying they will not reenliste and I can't blame them. I know people who have spent three of the last four years on active duty. It just doesn't make sense for a person to stay in the reserves with that type of op-tempo.

These long, back to back deployments mean you end up losing your civilian job or at least get passed over for promotions and the worst part is your kids grow up without ever seeing you for years at a time. These people didn't sign up for this and if Bush & Company continue to abuse patriotic Americans then we will see people leave the military in ever greater numbers.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 02:57
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American Foreign Legion.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Do you feel a draft?


Nope, but the Pentagon and that ******* in the white house are going to have to realize that if you want to keep full time soldiers, you're going to have to pay them like full time soldiers and deal with family and quality of life issues.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
time: 00:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 03:57 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Dude, give it up. I'm gonna harp on that until the cows come home . . . or the soldiers, whatever comes first.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
time: 21:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 03:59
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Better make sure you have plenty of spare strings for your harp, because it'll be a looooooooooong wait for either.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 04:15 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Air harp, dude.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 04:37
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MtG, Why don't they simply add two (or more) divisions to the regular army? This Iraq situation does not look like it is going away soon. The war on terror continues; and we have to deal weakly with NK and Iran.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 05:52 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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We have a solution to this - we pay our soldiers lots and lots of tax free danger money.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Jul 2005
time: 00:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 06:45 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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"War is the H-Word", Futurama

Bender: Hello. We are here because we, uh.. love your planet.

* Bender and Fry snicker*

Recruiting Officer: Sign here on the dotted line, patriots, and I'll give you your discount cards.

Fry: Just out of curiosity, we can use the cards to buy gum, and then immediately quit the army, right?

Bender: You know. Playing you all for chumps.

Recruiting Officer: Correct. There is no obligation.

* Bender and Fry snicker while signing *

Recruiting Officer. Unless, of course, war were declared.

* klaxons sounds *

Fry: What's that?

Recruiting Officer: War were declared.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 07:21 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Didn't a similar exodus occur after GWI?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 09:03
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Most of the post GW1 exodus was involentary since the force structure got cut by 1/3.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 09:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
We have a solution to this - we pay our soldiers lots and lots of tax free danger money.


We get the tax free danger money but for some reason Uncle Sam skipped the "lots and lots" part.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 09:07
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I want to join... wifey won't let me

Can't blame her. They'd probably just have me make bombs anyway. Yet, I'd like active duty. There are plenty like me, and many of them are my friends, including my neighbor I grew up with who is a Ranger. He was so pisssed when the war broke out because he had finished his "duty" that he reenlisted...

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
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Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 09:46
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Lets pay the soldiers more, but not spend our money on the military...

Some posters have an odd duality of opinons from thread to thread.

I, of course, would love a pay raise

-Pat

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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Jan 1970
time: 05:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 10:48 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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Let's drastically cut the force structure, and drastically increase benefits. We'll come out ahead financially by quite a bit, and best of all, we will no longer have the capability to deploy large ground forces - not only will we not have the ships to do so, but we won't even have the large ground forces themselves!

The $300 billion or so per year that we save by doing this can be used for all sorts of useful things - well, two useful things, anyway: Tax cuts and paying down the debt.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 11:02 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


We get the tax free danger money but for some reason Uncle Sam skipped the "lots and lots" part.


Historically Australian troops have always been highly paid for overseas deployment to war zones. This goes right back to WW1 when Australian troops were paid something like 5 times what a British soldier got. It was a source of resentment for other allied soldiers - but ours was a fully volunteer force.

As a result, deployments to war zones are very lucrative and highly sought after, including today.

In Iraq our troops get $130 a day tax free on top of their normal pay, overseas deployment and hardship allowances.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 11:10
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With base pay, hostile fire pay, basic allowance for quarters (BAQ), over seas pay, and hardship duty pay my take home will be about $52k per year tax free. That isn't great for the BS and possible death but it isn't that terrible either. Back home I'd have to make about $75k-$80k in order to take home the same amount as I get in a tax free zone.

Still when you realize a highway patrolman with 2.5 years experience makes an average of $65k (more if he works over time) the military does seem underpaid. The UN pay scale would be around $80k tax free for someone of my experience. Unfortunately, the US doesn't believe in paying its soldiers at UN scale. The really odd thing is the US often ends up paying soldiers from other countries at UN scale if they agree to take part in missions.

Ned is offline Ned
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 11:48
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How about we add a few Iraqi divisions that become part of the US Army and are deployable outside of Iraq?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 11:50
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd


Let's drastically cut the force structure, and drastically increase benefits. We'll come out ahead financially by quite a bit, and best of all, we will no longer have the capability to deploy large ground forces - not only will we not have the ships to do so, but we won't even have the large ground forces themselves!

The $300 billion or so per year that we save by doing this can be used for all sorts of useful things - well, two useful things, anyway: Tax cuts and paying down the debt.


Don't forget lessons in Arabic and the Qu'ran when these *******s come for your pansy ass.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 11:58
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Didn't a similar exodus occur after GWI?


Yeah - when Clinton axed 3AD and 5ID and gutted VII Corps.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
MtG, Why don't they simply add two (or more) divisions to the regular army? This Iraq situation does not look like it is going away soon. The war on terror continues; and we have to deal weakly with NK and Iran.


You've got them - the six Stryker brigades. And that's why equipment BOIPs are behind schedule and underfunded for the rest of the Army, and a host of other procurement problems.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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quote:
Don't forget lessons in Arabic and the Qu'ran when these *******s come for your pansy ass.




That's a silly troll - we both know that they can't invade the US.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 17:15 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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And, for that matter, just stop pissing them off by being the world's greatest and most interventionist military power, and we should be fine. 9/11 didn't happen in Europe, after all.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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  Old Post 26-11-2003 21:36 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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kinda funny, i think. we're in the arab world, right? and then there's the term "exodus". like moses came to rumsfeld and said "let my people go!" but not.

i'm not going over there. nope, not interested. problem in east asia? sure i'll enlist if there's no place for me in the foreign service.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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Cool  Old Post 26-11-2003 21:48 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Re: Army Reserve battles an exodus Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Sava



I guess they don't buy the "one weekend a month" BS...


Che's buddies do.
What this means is a step closer to conscription.

Laugh now, clown.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
time: 21:32
  Old Post 26-11-2003 21:56
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd




That's a silly troll - we both know that they can't invade the US.


With your hippie-ass idea of a defensive posture, they could, except for the likelihood we'd have already been speaking German or Russian.

 
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