25-11-2003 22:26									#1
	Fortresses Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hello, long time civ player (as in civ 1) first time poster .

I am in the process of moding my own game (I call it the modern units are real pricey mod ). I have always felt the reason for the dullness of the end game is because there are too damn many modern units. At any rate one of the things I would like to change is the fortresses. That it, I would like the fortresses to have a zone of control. It makes me nuts to watch enemy units pour through a breach in a line of fortresses no matter how many units are in the adjacent ones. Is this possible? Thanks in advance.

	25-11-2003 22:50									#2
	Put an end to popups!

cut the costs of fortresses and barricades in half... build a barricade in the time it takes to build a fortress now.

	25-11-2003 23:04									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If that doesn't work, just give your units ZoC.

	25-11-2003 23:07									#4
	ZOC Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I thought of that...but I dont think all units should have ZOCs. Defensive ones maybe. I also thought of creating a new "fortress" unit. Something I may try to see how the AI handles it.

	26-11-2003 00:04									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

ZOC on fortresses doesn't really make sense in the Modern Era. Civ3 ZOC is all about mobility and manuverability. And as the Germans so ablely demonstrated in '39 at the Maginot Line, a static defense is useless at controlling more than the most limited of territories. And D-day hammered home the futility of static defenses on the modern battlefield.

Personally, I think the last really effective fortress line was the Lines of Torres Verde that Wellington had built just outside Lisbon in his Penninsular campaign. And that was as much because when the French saw the lines they knew that even attempting to assault them would have been too costly, and likely would have resulted in a total defeat against a much fresher British army.

Thats why I only really use forts and fortresses at choke points where I can be sure that the enemy has to go through that hex. Otherwise, I'd rather not waste the units in defending empty land. Better to either put them on defense in a city, or preferably on the offensive and forcing the AI to react to me, not me to it.

	26-11-2003 00:21									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

well, I guess my thoughts were just that, but the modern era a line of fortresses were useless, IM trying to making them useful prior to that. Last night as the egyptians I watched as enemy forces penetrated my fortress line in one spot (A surprise attack prior to their completion left a weak link). Now I had adequate forces on either side of the penetration to close the gap, but I watched as 20 calvary units poured through before it was my turn, by then the damage was done. To me, it would be more realistic for that era if fortresses dominated the landscape.