27-11-2003 02:18									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Well I already found two.

You say that right after mentioning how they look like copied stories?

	27-11-2003 02:20									#32
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The AP isn't a real news source now?

	27-11-2003 02:21									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld You say that right after mentioning how they look like copied stories?

Well I know they are copied but you can still count them as three actually, but I guess they are one source. BUt I dont feel like finding more right now.

	27-11-2003 02:28									#34
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the worse miami looks, the better atlanta's chances are of snagging the americas trade thing hq. and chicago's.

	27-11-2003 02:35									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The AP isn't a real news source now?

I'm not the one going around saying that things aren't real news sources.

I just half to laugh that he'd consider a canned report from who-knows-who to be more 'real' than a first hand account. Makes me wonder what the qualification for being 'real' is - a cable network and flashy intro pieces, money?

	27-11-2003 02:36									#36
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Shocking

	27-11-2003 02:38									#37
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quote: I just half to laugh that he'd consider a canned report from who-knows-who to be more 'real' than a first hand account.

Um.. I consider an AP account to be much more 'real' than a first hand account. I don't really trust first hand accounts much at all.

	27-11-2003 02:43									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I just half to laugh that he'd consider a canned report from who-knows-who to be more 'real' than a first hand account. Um.. I consider an AP account to be much more 'real' than a first hand account. I don't really trust first hand accounts much at all.

You only trust reports written by people who wheren't there?

	27-11-2003 02:44									#39
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I trust reports written by people who have talked to a number of people about the event and written a piece based on all the accounts... not just one moron who wants to be in the newspaper.

	27-11-2003 03:05									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I trust reports written by people who have talked to a number of people about the event and written a piece based on all the accounts... not just one moron who wants to be in the newspaper.

Then maybe you shouldn't make broad generalizations about news sources, since that's a matter of technique on the reporter's behalf, not the brand name he's working under.

Coincedentally, the article in the original post actually gives quotes from different people who where there, and from both sides of it (even if it is with an agenda). Where as all the AP report does is say "this happened. and then they did this. and then this was done by them." and doesn't bother to give any sources, any quotes, or anything at all.

	27-11-2003 03:31									#41
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The first article is clearly tendentious and its sources seem to be largely dependent on each other. The AP article has similar problems but also suffers from the apparent lack of first hand accounts. It would certainly not have passed the grade in my journalism class...

	27-11-2003 04:10									#42
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I would have flunked the guy that wrote the AP story as well...
*and yes, I have a degree in Journalism*

	27-11-2003 04:57									#43
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quote: Then maybe you shouldn't make broad generalizations about news sources

Why not? Some news sources follow the same pattern.

quote: Where as all the AP report does is say "this happened. and then they did this. and then this was done by them." and doesn't bother to give any sources, any quotes, or anything at all.

You do realize that is all the AP really does? It just gives a general story, and it is up to the reporter at the paper to augment it. Sometimes papers run AP news stories as just 'here is a general news story about a place we don't care about'.

	27-11-2003 05:07									#44
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Che, they didn't have permits. They attacked the police. They set fires. They tried to tear down fences. This was no "police riot." This was planned anarchy, akin to the Weatherman riot in Chicago in '69. Same strategy.

"[A]t least 1,000 protesters -- many wearing bandanas across their faces, surgical masks and blue batting helmets -- approached lines of police blocking downtown streets. Others carried gas masks and tried to pull down security fences with large hooks.

The officers used their batons mostly to push back the protesters but occasionally used them to strike the demonstrators.

After the march, demonstrators set small trash fires in the streets, pushed up against police lines and hurled water bottles at officers. Police responded with tear gas and rubber bullets.

The protesters threw up barricades of wooden boards, concrete parking blocks, trash bins and other materials.

Police Chief John Timoney said the "rough start" to the day's protests came because police were trying to clear demonstrators who did not have permits to be in the streets."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103627,00.html

	27-11-2003 05:39									#45
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To prove my point:

realpolitic vs. Ned

Realpolitic:

The forces fired indiscriminately into crowds of unarmed protesters. Scores of people were hit with skin-piercing rubber bullets; thousands were gassed with an array of chemicals. On several occasions, police fired loud concussion grenades into the crowds. Police shocked people with electric tazers. Demonstrators were shot in the back as they retreated. One young guy's apparent crime was holding his fingers in a peace sign in front of the troops. They shot him multiple times, including once in the stomach at point blank range.


Ned:

The officers used their batons mostly to push back the protesters but occasionally used them to strike the demonstrators.

After the march, demonstrators set small trash fires in the streets, pushed up against police lines and hurled water bottles at officers. Police responded with tear gas and rubber bullets.

On one hand we have "police firing indiscriminately into crowds".

On the other we have "Police responded with tear gas and rubber bullets."

Chances are what happened was somewhere in between.

Some police firing indescriminately? Sure.

All of them? No way in hell.

Protesters all polite and innocent? No.

Small percentage of them troublemakers? Absolutely.

ACK!

	27-11-2003 06:50									#46
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I don't believe much of what realpolitic says. It's like all the reports of police attacking union members for the last 150 years. You only hear one side of the story from the union members and never hear about who instigated the violence.

The FOX story stated that the protesters, read, anarchists according to a live report I saw on TV, did not have a permit. They attacked the police and tried to tear down fences. This has been an anarchist or radical tactic since the days of the Weathermen.

	27-11-2003 06:52									#47
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I don't believe much of what realpolitic posted either.

On the other hand, FoxNews isn't exactly non-biased.

The only way to get an accurate picture is to look at both sides.

ACK!

	27-11-2003 07:17									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski I don't believe much of what realpolitic posted either. On the other hand, FoxNews isn't exactly non-biased. The only way to get an accurate picture is to look at both sides. ACK!

Hah. You will never get that from AP or CBS or the like. The one reporter who identified the rioting demonstrators as anarchists caught himself immediately after saying this. He knew he had said something that he shouldn't. Most of the networks never give you any insight at all as to who the violent protesters are, how the prepare for these confrontations, or what their political agenda really is by visiting their web sites. They are simply labelled protesters.

If there is violence, they show only the violence from the police and not what caused the police to react.

As I mentioned in another thread, Christian Amanpour broadcast the London protests live. As she stepped aside, the camera panned over the crowd. There were literally hundreds of Cuban flags waving. She never said a thing about the politics of the protesters, who they were or their obvious affliation with the communist party. One would think that these protesters were common English folk who simply did not like Bush. But the truth was quite different. You will never get the real story from any of the major networks, though. Why?

They are all anti-Bush themselves. That is why.

	27-11-2003 08:08									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Ming *and yes, I have a degree in Journalism*

why don't believe in free speech then?

	27-11-2003 14:03									#50
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I am the harbinger of truth.

So that's a harbinger.

	27-11-2003 21:15									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse why don't believe in free speech then?

Jounalist do not believe in free speech. They believed in monopolized speech with special powers and privilages for themselves, not shared with the public. They do not want unfiltered (by them) eyewitness accounts to be available to public which would then give the lie to their 'reporting'.

	27-11-2003 21:34									#52
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quote: Miami Mayor Manny Diaz called the police actions last week a model for homeland security.

Don't they mean Fatherland Security?

	01-12-2003 02:22									#53
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I came here looking for naked pictures of the female journalist. what a rip.

anyone have pictures?