26-11-2003 11:00									#1
	AI and curraghs Increase Your PM Length

While running some tests in the debug mode I noticed something very odd with the AI regarding curraghs. I had set all the civs in the game to be isolated on little islands so they couldn't contact each other and didn't allow them to build settlers, either. The all started with the same three techs: Warrior Code, Alphabet, and Masonry. Anyways, on turn one all the AIs started to build curraghs in their home cities. I was pleasantly surprised since I had not known the AI to build curraghs in any of the games I played. After they finished them, they fortified them in their cities and proceeded to build some more! Needless to say this was a pretty big waste of resources on their part. Does anybody happen to know what value the AI puts on curraghs and what they intend them to be used for when they build them? I'd at least think they would move around and scout just like galleys and such.

	26-11-2003 11:42									#2
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I'd say they pick them for suicide mode if they have nothing better to do.

	26-11-2003 12:18									#3
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So far I haven't seen the AI use Curraghs at ALL, and I have seen posts around by those more attentive than I about how their potential for early suicide location of other civs is something the AI cannot handle.

	26-11-2003 12:31									#4
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I can't say I recall any curraugh in use. They wait for galley to go out.

	26-11-2003 12:52									#5
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I agree that I've never seen curraghs built before, either. That's why I was so shocked to see them built there! I guess the AI actually knows *how* to build them, but not *what* to do with them once they're out there. Granted it took a rather extreme condition to do it (isolation and no settlers) but it was still done. It seemed really strange that they would build a naval unit for the sole purpose of dry-docking it, so I was trying to find out if there was some screwed up AI logic behind what they did.

	26-11-2003 13:18									#6
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I've seen several AI Curraghs floating around in my games.

The AI is probably keeping them in those towns because it already knows it can't get them anywhere safely. A lot like how automated Workers just go to sleep if there aren't any jobs to be done. Certainly it would be better if that logic was applied before building the Curraghs though.

	26-11-2003 13:41									#7
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Aeson, you're the first. I think. None of the rest of us have ever seen an AI Curragh as far as I know.

What settings?

	26-11-2003 15:37									#8
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I suspect that if they gave them transport the AI would actually use them. As it is they are considered Naval Power units to be used for war. (Maybe even just the "Unload" flag).

	26-11-2003 19:13									#9
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The unload flag sounds like an interesting idea. But I know that a modder had a problem with them when they gave them just the transport capability. They would stick around port waiting for settler instead of going out earlier like they should. I can't remember specifically who encountered that problem, though.

	26-11-2003 20:26									#10
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So far I have only seen one AI curragh and that was in the AoD scenario. Why the Mayans should build a curragh there after they had been traded a full world map and the european civs were up to frigates and carracks is beyond my understanding.

	26-11-2003 22:04									#11
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I have played a bunch of games in C3C (mostly the first 2 ages) and even one in debug. In the debug it was contients and I saw no boats from the AI until they made a galley. So I could could see everything and still none make a curragh.

Oh these games are Mon/Emp and Demi, not sure if that matters.

	26-11-2003 23:02									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson The AI is probably keeping them in those towns because it already knows it can't get them anywhere safely.

Define 'anywhere' (this is to introduce my point, not to start another debate!).

In other words, what does the AI use Curraghs for? Not to get Contacts, because I've consistently observed the AI neglect building Curraghs even though there was safe passage to another continent (it definitely does not build Curraghs to contact civs on the same continent). Does it perhaps save the Curraghs to take out Barb or enemy Galleys? That's pretty wasteful if true, because by the time those become a problem, the AI most often already has Map Making itself. It certainly does not build Curraghs as upgrade material!

What other uses are there for Curraghs?

The 'Explore' behaviour for the AI is just plain bad (if it exists at all). If you watch the AI in Debug mode you see that it "explores" by being attacted/distracted to certain locations, like Barb camps and enemy cities. This is not completely surprising since it "sees" the whole map already. Thus implementing an exploration algorithm based on uncovered tiles (basically how humans go about exploration) would be sort of awkward. Yet this is the only way to make sense of sea exploration (since naval Barb camps do not exist, and there's nothing particularly "attractive" about an enemy port when a Curragh/Galley cannot do anything to it).


Dominae

	26-11-2003 23:59									#13
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What about making it "privateer"?

1/1/2 and bombard (1) may be 2, RoF = 1, hidden nationality, enslave, cost 20.

C3C AI builds privateer, does not it?

	27-11-2003 05:53									#14
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I thought in the first discussion re Curraugh a solution has been developed?

	27-11-2003 06:41									#15
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I'm pretty sure I've seen them in all the maps I've played on which I had a coastal start or view. I've only played on Sid difficulty and Standard mapsize so far. Random settings other than that.

	27-11-2003 07:08									#16
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Well, on Emperor-Demigod-Deity, the AI rarely has the time to build them until Map Making is available, at which point they're obsolete.

	27-11-2003 07:47									#17
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Friggin' Aeson: "I've only on Sid difficulty thus far."



Please tell me it's been a LITTLE bit challenging!

	27-11-2003 07:54									#18
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Its silly AI stuff like this that makes me want to just play hotseat by myself.

	27-11-2003 11:09									#19
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Sid level, ouch. I have manage to hold my own on demi so far, I should do a debug on sid just to watch the AI swarm the map.

Anyway as I said, no curgs so far on Mon/Emo/Demi, so maybe they do it on sid. Lords knows they have enough units that they can afford it.

	27-11-2003 16:16									#20
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Sid is really no fun at all... except for seeing the Curraghs.

	27-11-2003 23:41									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Sid is really no fun at all... except for seeing the Curraghs.

Now that I believe, Deity was not exactly fun, at least not the first half of the game.