28-11-2003 02:08									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat He's the master troll - puts Horsie to shame.

Why, thanks for the compliment.

As to the amount of a voucher, why couldn't we make it effectively equal to the state average for per-pupil cost? I think that amount in California is considerably higher than $5200. Any amount that is less than the state average would amount to a subsidy for middle class kids already in private school and do nothing to benefit the poor, especially the minorities.

In India, they are now requiring private schools to admit 20% of the poor precisely because of the discrimination problem there. We could consider the same thing here.

The opponents of vouchers seem to be doing their damnest to maintain their privileges and keep the poor, black kids in their place.

	28-11-2003 02:58									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi My university costs only 3K/year! Since it is one of the best in Canada, I would say you are getting ripped off MtG. Of course the entry requirements are starting to creep up.

What do you pay your teachers? And how many teachers/assistants/non-teaching staff per student?

At 5 grand a year, the school couldn't pay it's staff at the level of public school teachers, (most of whom don't get paid enough to afford decent housing in this market) let alone utilities, equipment and supply costs, etc.
[/QUOTE]

Some of the private schools here are ripoffs, or else use tuition as a form of economic Darwinism (I can think of a couple in La Jolla that fit the bill)

	28-11-2003 03:05									#33
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Separate but equal Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat No, it's a non-profit. They pay teachers decently, have up to date technology, labs, etc. and have a pretty low density of students for the campus size, amount of staff, etc. Add to that a lot of field trips and field work, a decent theater, gym, music and arts programs, and a host of things generally lacking in public schools here.

Yeah. I got that for £6k a year. Thats before my 25% scholarship.

And uni here costs practically nothing compared to American ones.

	28-11-2003 03:07									#34
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Teacher start off at 40k a year on their first year, which is enough to provide a good home.
My cousin just started teachoing last yeart at that's what he makes. My uncle has been teaching for 26 years and he makes 70k a year.
Every school has support teachers, programs, counsellors, up to date equipement, feild trips and so on.
In Canada, well Quebec anyways, you can get a nice house (4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and a garage) for under 150k which means a monthly mortgage payment of around 900$ a month. Every house here has a basement due to our climat which increases the living space by as much as 50% for a bungalow or 33% for a town house.

Teachers has no problems earning a living and we are placed pretty high education wise worldwide.

Spec.

	28-11-2003 04:00									#35
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quote: Originally posted by GePap As I ask over and over and over, dozens of other industrialized states make Public schools work..so there must be somehting about how the uS forms iot public schools that is the basis for failure. I say it is paying from local property taxes and decentralized control.

Trying to make public schools as good as private schools while permitting continued segregation is the very definition of

SEPARATE but EQUAL.

	28-11-2003 06:55									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed Forget race. What it'll do primarily, Ned, is remove the able students (disproportionally from a middle-class background for various reasons) from public school, thus greatly increasing the segregation in society, with even worse bad schools and (possibly) better good schools. The system is also innefficient and a total waste of public money but that's a minor concern.

Buck, what we need to do is end "public education" and replace it by vouchers across the board. The poor kids should have additional help to "level" the playing field. In addition, affirmative action should be applied to schools so that the makup of the student population matches that of society.

Schools would then compete with each other on the basis of quality and cost, but not on the basis of race exclusivity.

	28-11-2003 07:19									#37
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I wouldn't compare all public education with the disasters you see in the larger cities. I graduated in a class with 73 others. It was in a small rural area where all but 1 of the teachers were from the area.

Maybe its not a matter of public versus private school but a matter of size and location.

	28-11-2003 07:37									#38
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Well, Sprayber, the minorities in Boston have both segregation and bad public schools.

That said, my daughter had good public education in Minnesota until we moved to Kali-fornia. From that point on, it was an unmitigated disaster.

Anyone experiencing some (most) Kali-fornia public schools will be in favor of vouchers. Not so in Minnesota where the public schools are very good.

	28-11-2003 08:25									#39
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McGill at 3K a year? You gotta be kidding.

	28-11-2003 08:44									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi My university costs only 3K/year!

For now!

Mwahahahahahahaha!!!

Oh, I bet you'll want the NDP back right-quick when crunch time rolls around. Won't you?! WON'T YOU?!?!

...

Sorry.

	28-11-2003 09:09									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger McGill at 3K a year? You gotta be kidding.

According to the latest MacLean's rankings:

One full course year (that is, 2 semesters) at McGill will set you back $5,365. That's tuition plus compulsory ancillary fees.

However, if you're a Quebec resident and you wish to go to McGill, it will only cost you $2,860 total.

Lucky French bastards.

	28-11-2003 09:51									#42
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quote: I have yet to see a private school in the US worth a **** (and not heavily subsidized by someone) that charges anything close to the low level of any voucher program that I've seen. So sorry to burst your bubble, but private schools are and will remain generally restricted to those with economic privilege, or those few given full or at least major scholarships.

We sent one kid to Topeka Collegiate - ~$5,000 a year. Now he's at Northwestern thanks in part to the education he got there.

	28-11-2003 09:55									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I wouldn't compare all public education with the disasters you see in the larger cities. I graduated in a class with 73 others. It was in a small rural area where all but 1 of the teachers were from the area. Maybe its not a matter of public versus private school but a matter of size and location.

so did I

and I was one of 2 who graduated from college 4 years later

and out of my class of 73 only 40 graduated highschool on time

and disregarding a couple teachers, my highschool was worthless as college prep

Jon Miller

	28-11-2003 09:57									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, Sprayber, the minorities in Boston have both segregation and bad public schools. That said, my daughter had good public education in Minnesota until we moved to Kali-fornia. From that point on, it was an unmitigated disaster. Anyone experiencing some (most) Kali-fornia public schools will be in favor of vouchers. Not so in Minnesota where the public schools are very good.

yah, from what I heard public schools in Minnesota and the Midwest are very good

they even have things like art and music

and teachers that do other than play Solitaire

Jon Miller

	28-11-2003 11:14									#45
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quote: Originally posted by cinch According to the latest MacLean's rankings: One full course year (that is, 2 semesters) at McGill will set you back $5,365. That's tuition plus compulsory ancillary fees. However, if you're a Quebec resident and you wish to go to McGill, it will only cost you $2,860 total. Lucky French bastards.

More like lucky half-french bastards.

And that's up from when I was there. I was at ~2400 $ for two semesters.

	28-11-2003 13:40									#46
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Sorry.

Just under 3K per term or closer to 6K per year.

I'm out at UBC. Used to be 5K per year before the tuition increase.

I'm so used to paying out each semester, that I forget to add the two together for the year.

	28-11-2003 13:44									#47
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Cinch:

I used to be in sciences. A tuition freeze really helped our quality of education.

I'm glad they are charging us artsies more so that the science students get decent labs.