28-11-2003 13:47									#31
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With Democracy posting orders for all to see, it makes that government basically untenable. I propose that its disadvantages should be: You cannot spy on anyone (sure, you have intelligence reports, but different departments give conflicting reports), you cannot nuke someone unless they nuked you first (deflections count as nuking from the person who deflected) and you cannot deflect to someone else unless they have nuked you first. And remove Democracies immunity to propaganda.

To make Communism stronger, they should be allowed to perform propaganda.

No changes to Isolationalists. They are strong already.

Military Dictatorship should have 1 bunker. Otherwise they are a powerful threat that will be removed on the first turn - a one shot wonder.

	28-11-2003 13:57									#32
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Perhaps we should make democracy so that players post their orders to ADG only, who then in turn publicizes these orders just prior to playing the turn.

That way other players cannot adjust their orders for the given turn.

Otherwise it would just be ridiculous:

Asmodean (Democracy): I fire two nukes at Spikie
Spikie (Isolationism): Bah...I deflect towards Asmodean

Asmodean

	28-11-2003 13:59									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns With Democracy posting orders for all to see, it makes that government basically untenable. I propose that its disadvantages should be: You cannot spy on anyone (sure, you have intelligence reports, but different departments give conflicting reports), you cannot nuke someone unless they nuked you first (deflections count as nuking from the person who deflected) and you cannot deflect to someone else unless they have nuked you first. And remove Democracies immunity to propaganda.

The no spies makes communism a viable counter against democracy

quote: To make Communism stronger, they should be allowed to perform propaganda.

I still think communism is too weak. But perhaps "2 spies per build" is a good thing....I would prefer a propaganda bonus though, instead of a spy bonus. Communism still makes great propaganda, but not so good spies

	28-11-2003 13:59									#34
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I think people being able to react to the actions of democracies is kind of the point. Otherwise, having the orders be public doesn't matter at all.

	28-11-2003 14:01									#35
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Communists should definitely be allowed to use propoaganda - just keep their inability to build cities. That way, they can still expand, but they have to 'feed off' others to do so.

	28-11-2003 14:11									#36
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus I think people being able to react to the actions of democracies is kind of the point. Otherwise, having the orders be public doesn't matter at all.

I don't agree. People can always react on later turns. If players can react this turn, then Democracies have no chance whatsoever in this game.

That would make them too unbalanced and not fun to play

Asmodean

	28-11-2003 15:24									#37
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OK, someone think of a better penalty for democracy (who should be using their über propaganda which can't be blocked )

quote: With Democracy posting orders for all to see, it makes that government basically untenable. I propose that its disadvantages should be: You cannot spy on anyone (sure, you have intelligence reports, but different departments give conflicting reports), you cannot nuke someone unless they nuked you first (deflections count as nuking from the person who deflected) and you cannot deflect to someone else unless they have nuked you first. And remove Democracies immunity to propaganda.

That's fine by me Skanky

And lets give Dictatorship 1 hide-in-bunker too.

And Communism producing spies at double speed.

-Jam

	28-11-2003 15:53									#38
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I don't want to belittle the amazing efforts of people who have thought about govts, but I think the game as we played it (with maybe a few minor adjustments) is probably the way to go. It's obvious it would take us a few games to balance these govts.

	28-11-2003 16:15									#39
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Of course we could play without governments, just adding spies and propaganda. In fact I'll play anything

-Jam

	28-11-2003 16:29									#40
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So how exactly would propaganda and spies work (for all players) if we remove govts?

	28-11-2003 16:32									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I don't want to belittle the amazing efforts of people who have thought about govts, but I think the game as we played it (with maybe a few minor adjustments) is probably the way to go. It's obvious it would take us a few games to balance these govts.

PEOPLES OF THE WORLD:

I propose we all (including me, whom is gong to be COMMUNIST) all form an alliance against Dr. Spike.
We'll call it the Governmental Alliance

	28-11-2003 16:38									#42
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The 'mental alliance huh? Sounds about right Tass.

	28-11-2003 16:45									#43
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Let's do a voting then:

1. Play with rules as in previous game
2. Above + spy rule
3. Above + spy rule + propaganda rule
3. Above + propaganda rule
5. As described in first post
6. Above with changed rules (For governments)
7. Other

For now this changes has been posted (Correct me if I'm wrong):



Communism:
Be allowed to do propaganda
Train 2 spies instead of one
Produce spies at double speed (?)

Military:
Be allowed to hide in bunker once

Democracy:
Don't public orders
Not immune to propaganda


What's your idea about governments with thos changes?

	28-11-2003 18:12									#44
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Government=Praise-ADG Cities=ADG rules, ADG's great, and ADG Can rule the world

Missing 50% of the turns during last game kinda tells me you're not interested in playing this game
And I don't see any reason why the other players should wait for you to not make your move...

	28-11-2003 18:19									#45
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I like the changes for the govrernments.

	28-11-2003 19:20									#46
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My goverment is communism and cities are Heinola, Pavesia City and Helsinki.

Like the changes in goverments, voting for 6.

	28-11-2003 20:02									#47
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I'll go with 6 too.

-Jam

	28-11-2003 20:49									#48
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My vote is 2.

Asmodean

	28-11-2003 20:59									#49
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Also 2.

	28-11-2003 21:05									#50
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My 6 counts a a 6 or lower.

-Jam

	28-11-2003 23:05									#51
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3 votes for #6 and 2 votes for #2

...I'll cast a vote on #6 also


One question:

Should the bunkers (Who has used them, and who haven't) be shown for everybody? Or should they be kept private?

	28-11-2003 23:24									#52
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I'm in.

Democracy - Dallas Fort Worth, and Denton.

	28-11-2003 23:26									#53
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quote: Originally posted by ADG Missing 50% of the turns during last game kinda tells me you're not interested in playing this game And I don't see any reason why the other players should wait for you to not make your move...

I like my mansion is all I missed most of my orders because of time zone differences and the fact that I needed to send my orders VERY early/late.

	28-11-2003 23:30									#54
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Oh, and rules do not matter to me. Whatever you guys decide is okay with me.

	28-11-2003 23:39									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master I like my mansion is all I missed most of my orders because of time zone differences and the fact that I needed to send my orders VERY early/late.

Since each round takes 24 hours, there's no excuse
(I assume the days where you live, also takes 24 hours...which means you've got ONE day )

But feel free to stay in your mansion and keep an eye on how the other players nukes the hell out of each other...

	28-11-2003 23:47									#56
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

* Adagio takes a look at the Nuclear War game

Seems like we're playing last round now... So to whoever is still missing to post city-names, government... or even sign up... now is the time...
My guess is: First round will end Monday

If you haven't posted your information by then, you're out of the game...

	28-11-2003 23:53									#57
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

For the record, I vote 2.

But I had better go, will be late for work again today.

	29-11-2003 03:40									#58
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Bah, you just said we don't need cities.
I vote for 6.

And Dr. Spike....I PROMISE YOU THAT YOU WILL DIE!!!!! DEATH TOYOU DRSPIKE

	29-11-2003 03:52									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Bah, you just said we don't need cities. I vote for 6. And Dr. Spike....I PROMISE YOU THAT YOU WILL DIE!!!!! DEATH TOYOU DRSPIKE

Well technically, I broke it first

Asmodean

	29-11-2003 04:07									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Bah, you just said we don't need cities. I vote for 6. And Dr. Spike....I PROMISE YOU THAT YOU WILL DIE!!!!! DEATH TOYOU DRSPIKE

Very well. My position is that all who do not wish to be part of an archaic commie alliance lead by a madman should flock to my banner now, so we can form a counteralliance. Who can tell which target he will become irrationally obsessed with next?