28-11-2003 16:53									#1
	MPP in Conquests Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This is what I have just seen in my C3C Epic game.

I was winning the tech race by a large margin (the last 3/4 of the Industrial Age and the first half of the Modern Age), and thus was a little bored. I decided on a war to brighten things up a bit and do a domination victory with the new victory stats screen to get me excited as I edged ever closer to a win. So I built a force of MIs and Tanks to take on their Riflemen and Longbowmen, signed MPPs with all but the Mayans, and invaded the Mayan lands. I did not attack first turn, as several civs also had MPPs with the Mayans, and I wanted the Mayans to do the inevitable attacking large stacks fruitlessly first, thus trigerring war with my MPP mates.

However, not only did the Mayans not attack my ridiculous stacks that turn, at the end of the mid-turn sequence one of their MPP mates declared war on me! Now I had not attacked a thing - all I had done was declare war when I entered the Mayans territory. In my experience from PtW, the AI would ALWAYS attack my stacks on day 1, no matter how outmatched they were, and thus there was never an MPP triggered against me.

There are 1 or two changes in the AI here - first is that the AI will not attack against fruitless odds 100% of the time, and (possibly) second; that declaring war is all that is needed for an MPP to be triggered - no conflict is actually necessary.

Does anyone else's experience support/disprove these hypothesised changes?

	28-11-2003 17:12									#2
	Suffering from ads?

That's pretty much what I attempted last night so I could whittle down the overpowered Koreans. Got MPP with their allies, declared war and waited for them to attack. They moved TONS of infantry into my lands but didn't attack that turn. Then their BAby allies declare war on me too!

	28-11-2003 18:25									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

But the question is this: did this happen in PtW too and I just never saw it, or is it new to C3C?

	28-11-2003 19:02									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

MPP's are triggered AFAIK when a civ's territory is bombarded or their units are attacked within their own territory. At least that was my PTW experience. There an AI could invade your territory and you could massacre their units in a defensive battle without their allies joining in but bombard one tile improvement in their territory and every civ they had an MPP with would be all over you.

In both of your cases it sounds like no MPP's were triggered since no-one did anything that would qualify. The other AI civs simply chose to declare war.

You get a different pop-up from an AI civ declaring war due to an MPP than the one where they simply declare war (at least in PTW and I doubt if they took anything out when making C3C).

The C3C AI is certainly much more reluctant to make suicidal attacks. I have been playing as the Dutch and only the Vikings with berserks were prepared to even think about attacking swiss mercs.

	30-11-2003 05:20									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV In both of your cases it sounds like no MPP's were triggered since no-one did anything that would qualify. The other AI civs simply chose to declare war. You get a different pop-up from an AI civ declaring war due to an MPP than the one where they simply declare war (at least in PTW and I doubt if they took anything out when making C3C).

But the pop-up was not simply "x has declared war on us", it specifically mentioned the MPP! I stress there had been NO conflict until this point, just me declaring war and landing troops.

Here, let me show you...

	30-11-2003 10:04									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

MPPs are triggered when you attack a civ in its own territory, or when any of your combat units end their turn in enemy territory during a state of war. Your invasion of the Mayans prompted the MPP declaration -- even though you didn't attack, the presence of your combat troops in Mayan territory at the end of the turn triggered it. BTW, even if the Mayans had attacked your stacks, it wouldn't have triggered your MPPs -- only an attack against your units, in your territory, would trigger -- the Mayans would have been free to obliterate your stacks (assuming they had the firepower to do so ) in defense of their territory without triggering your MPPs.

Catt

	30-11-2003 14:49									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Wow - thanks Catt. Gues I need to pay more attention when I MPP-gangbash an opponent...

	30-11-2003 17:08									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

so the moral of the story is to declare war, and place bait just inside your border from your chosen enemy. no, a four-mech-inf demon army does not count as bait for their bowmen.