29-11-2003 04:46									#1
	Questions on the new Armies... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

First of all, I love the new combat bonuses armies receive. Once I've built the Military Academy, that city does nothing else but produce armies and a few city improvements to up production.

And I apologize in advance if these were answered elsewhere, I can't seem to find the relevant threads if they were. (ok, just rechecked the "Armies DO have combat bonus!" thread, and it's not in there).

1. Can elite units in armies produce military great leaders?


2. As the first unit within an army makes its way up to elite status, are the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th units in that army ever given a first go at attack or defense? i.e. If the first cavalry unit in my army becomes elite and generates a leader, can I move it to the back of the pack to increase the odds of the other army units being promoted and perhaps generating leaders, or am I SOL?

	29-11-2003 05:44									#2
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1. No. Never.
2. You cannot change the order of attacks. The unit that is most likely to win will attack first. Thus, to promote other units you need to attack more than once per turn. The first unit lost some HP in the first attack, so it will take a back seat. However, the more army is injured the more likely it is to die, so use caution.

	29-11-2003 05:49									#3
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That was what I figured the answer might be, but no reason not to hope for a better one, neh?


Though it is kind of hard to be cautious with a marauding 4 vet tank army.

	29-11-2003 06:36									#4
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That army will get promotions by attacking three times and then defending a counter attack. Also on subsequent turns you keep attacking against units so that the second unit and third one get to go first. Avoiding attacks when the army would be in danger form any counter attacks.

	29-11-2003 07:28									#5
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Observations on Armies, and how to use (and not use) them:

I was playing MP and saw a player make a Knight Army, but only put 2 knights in it. He was then surprised when i took it down with 4 archers while it was unfortified on a hill. His mistake there was not putting in the 3rd units, which meant no bonuses. So it was 2 vs 4 on the attack. As it was a 8 HP Army, it was not unreasonble for 4 vet Archers (16 HP total) to take it down. Add one more Knight Defense becomes 4, Hills make it 6. Suddenly you got 12 HP, 6 Def Army. On average I would need 36 HP (or 9 Vet Archers) to take it down. Big difference.

Horse/Archer Armies: Not that great Against Walled cities, especially on Hills. Such an Army against forted Spear on Hill with walls is 3 vs 4. On Average you will lose 10 HP making 2 successive attacks. I lost one of these this way.

Ancient Armies on Defense: This is very underrated. Once I has a Sword army on walled city on a Hill. My opponent was attacking with mainly War Chariots with a couple swords thrown in. The Att/Def ratio is 2 vs 6 (2->3 from army+2.25%) with the WC, and 3 vs 6 for Sword. My opponent Lost 5 WC's and 2 Swords (all vet) while inflicting 10 HP of damage on my 13 HP Army. Calculation would reveal the expected HP damage to this Armies from those 7 attacks would be 6 HP from WC's and 4 From Swords, which is what happened. Btw, he attacked with 15 units total, I had 8-9 additional units in the cities, and only lost 1 unit, and a fully healed army next turn.

If you can make a Merc/Hoplite Army, do it. Use it as a base for pillagnig operations as well as cover for you stack on Horses/swords. etc. Your opponents will essential have to kill the equivalent of a 12+HP Musket. Not an easy task with ancient era units. Even on flat terrain/unfortified, it would take 5-6 horses or 3-4 swords to get it in the red. If you fort it on a hill prior to an attack. you have 7 def. It become prohibitive to even attack it. (i.e would take 42 HP of horse to kill it, or 10.5 horses, most people, or the AI, dont have that kind of force handy to stop a rush, allowing u to ensure that entire stack gets to the city you want to attack.

	29-11-2003 11:24									#6
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CiverDan it is never a good idea to put troops in a position were they can be overrun, be they armies or not. So it could be a valid idea to make a 2 unit army ( I do it at times), you do not want to put it where it can be attack by 4 or more units. unless it will have others on that tile to take over once the army gets in the deep red. I would be afraid even then, the game likes to keep picking the army until it is dangerously exposed. It often will ignore a 4 HP unit in favor of the army with only 2HP left.
NOthing upset me like losing an army with an expendable unit left standing. I see this in couterattcks, where it will stick my army out to defend over and over and ignore full health units that I would not care about losing.

	29-11-2003 12:01									#7
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You make an interesting point Vmxa.

	29-11-2003 12:22									#8
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will be interesting to see how humans use armies agaisnt each other in multipalyer...

	29-11-2003 15:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin will be interesting to see how humans use armies agaisnt each other in multipalyer...

Like always - with extreme prejudice

	29-11-2003 20:52									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin will be interesting to see how humans use armies agaisnt each other in multipalyer...

I play Celts alot in MP, and dream of a Gallic Swordsmen army. Moving past that city with a dozen spears in it and cuttung the road. Hitting that city behind it with just 2 defenders. My version of an ancient blitzkrieg.

	30-11-2003 00:26									#11
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 CiverDan it is never a good idea to put troops in a position were they can be overrun, be they armies or not......... NOthing upset me like losing an army with an expendable unit left standing. I see this in couterattcks, where it will stick my army out to defend over and over and ignore full health units that I would not care about losing.

I know this pain, heh. Fortunately though, after experimenting a few times with the extra move armies, I've learned not to blitz quite as agressively. Of course, it cost me a 4 vet tank army lost to a cavalry swarm to learn this...

The divide between blitz as fast as you can with only offensive units and the slower, not so much blitz as a fast advance *with defensive units in tow!*, seems to occur between regent and monarch, new armies or no. I just recently moved up to monarch myself and have really noticed the difference. Actually, monarch has really made me consider defensive armies, though I've yet to try one out.