29-11-2003 20:24									#1
	1st Apolyton C3C Multiplayer Tournament Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

1st Apolyton C3C Multiplayer Tournament
Round I		Round II		Round III		Winner
Game I (After Action Report)	Wittlich (info)	Semifinal I (After Action Report)	Wittlich	Final (After Action Report)	Swissy	Snotty
	notyoueither (info)
Game II	GhengisFarb (info)		Swissy
	Swissy (info)
Game III (After Action Report)	Snotty (info)	Semifinal II (After Action Report)	Snotty		Snotty
	BigFree (info)
Game IV (After Action Report)	heysewa (info)		heysewa
	lameduck998 (info)

Rules:
1) Rounds last 4 days: Round I ends on Dec 4, 00:00 Apolyton Time(AT), Round II on Dec 8, 00:00 AT and Round III on Dec 12, 00:00 AT
2) The two opponents must arrange and complete their game within this time period
3) More time can be given if the game has begun. Players should notify MarkG (use only this link to mail me, thanks)
4) Games are recommended to be set on Tiny Pangea maps with 2 AI's. If the two opponents of each game can reach an agreement on different settings and promise not to complain about the outcome they are free to do so
5) Tournament Type must be selected on all occasions
6) Game results should be posted here by both players, as well as mailed to MarkG
7) A minimum of 30 turns of "initial peace" (during which the opponents dont attack each other) must be arranged by the opponents
8) In case of a dispute, saved games must be provided
9) Have fun!
10) More rules will be added if needed

Last edited by MarkG on 13-12-2003 at 14:32

	29-11-2003 22:39									#2
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Excellent stuff. Its a shame we dont get to kick any Grand Lord ass this time, but after my draw I doubt Im getting past the first round

Which game year is 30 turns? Or is there some easy way to find it in game?

	29-11-2003 22:41									#3
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F8 will tell you what turn your on. It about the middle of the page.

	30-11-2003 02:09									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Now I have to find Wittlich.

One question, what happens if people can't get together for their match? I'm not complaining, but maybe rounds should last a week in future so that schedules can be taken into account.

	30-11-2003 03:09									#5
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added links to the profiles of each participant

if you cant start a game in 4 days i'll... see what i can do...

	30-11-2003 06:21									#6
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I come with sad tidings. Rome is no more.

Official result, Wittlich and the super spear of Ottoman doom whooped our butts but good.

	30-11-2003 06:23									#7
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Well, the first game has finished. I won against notyoueither ... actually, I think I got VERY lucky with my spearman from hell.

Well played nye.

	30-11-2003 06:35									#8
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That didn't take long. Was it an Otto spearman rush, or the legions bashing their heads against the spearman defended Otto cities? How about an after action report?

	30-11-2003 08:39									#9
	Got spare money?

I would recommend MP tournaments be played on the same map for the whole tournament, ideally with the same sized starting land , with the same terrain types and amount of resources.

It would be best if each game was played from both ends of the map.. so the players play 2 games on the same map. in game 2 player 1 swaps starting locations with player 2.
The winner would be the most wins of both the games perhaps? A third game could be played if its a draw.. so its best out of 3.
This would make it a fair tournament, as any unfair advantages the first player location may has, will be felt by the second player as well.. and any map can be used.

The BIG problem is players will know the maps after the second game, and people can learn more of the map as they go to the last round. I suggest the map be revealed in full ( so it dosen't need exploring ) in order that my system works. This sucks , but I can't think of a better way yet.

To make games fair, you could make all player civs Millitaristic Religious too... as long as they have the same traits (or remove traits completely as with the Conqeusts traitless scenario)

Is Apolyon in Greece , I've never heard of Apolyton Time

Admiral Blood : tired at 4am.. ignore any nonsense that occurs.

	30-11-2003 11:04									#10
	Put an end to popups!

good thoughts Admiral, we'll consider them for the future

quote: Is Apolyon in Greece , I've never heard of Apolyton Time

Apolyton Time is the time of the server. it's displayed on most forum pages for common reference. you can see on threads for example, under the last post of each page

	30-11-2003 11:08									#11
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thanks for the quick outcome Wittlich and notyoueither.

Wittlich progresses to the Semifinals awaiting the results of the GhengisFarb vs Swissy game

After action reports would be great!

	30-11-2003 14:41									#12
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I had the game in the bag on turn 31. Grabbed his worker and rubbled his second city after his garrison warrior killed my worker slaving warrior. It all went horribly downhill from there.

I think I won 1 battle.

	30-11-2003 22:41									#13
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Yes, NYE pretty much sums the game up correctly...but I will try to put some more "meat" to the story for our felow Apolytoners.

The game itself, I would say, lasted for about 45 minutes (it might have lasted a little longer, don't know - you know how time just doesn't have any real meaning when you play civ? ).

Any now, NYE and myself started on the same land mass (only 10 tiles seperated my capital from his). NYE had built two cites and I built two cities. We both had warriors romping around in the wilderness. By turn 30 NYE had a warrior standing next to my worker who was busy finishing up on a mine. His warrior being right next to my worker gave me some concern, but the warrior was not within my cultural borders...so I figured what the hell the warrior will most likely move on next turn and I wasn't sure if NYE would start a war over the capture of a worker.

WELL, the next turn the warrior did indeed move on - right ontop of my poor worker (and he was one turn away from completing the mine!). I couldn't let this warrior who attacks civilians get away and the only military unit I had within striking distance was a garrisoned warrior in my second city. So I ordered the garisoned warrior to attack the worker-raiding warrior. I killed the offending warrior, but then another of NYE's warriors raised my now undefended town to the ground. Things looked rather bleak for Wittlich and his fledgling Ottoman Empire...

	30-11-2003 23:09									#14
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Now that my formerly garrisoned warrior killed the warrior who performed the sneek attack on my worker, this same warrior turned and killed the other warrior who raised my second city. One of my warriors who was romping around in the wilderness was then ordered to track down my worker was was last seen heading south-west into the wilderness. I eventually found the wayward worker and managed to capture him back again. I believe this is where NYE's plans started to crumble around him. On the turn prior to me recapturing my worker, NYE decided to disband the worker first .... But fate would not allow it. Instead of NYE disbanding my worker, he ended up disbanding his own worker!

Now I finally had my worker back again - but he was far away from my borders and had to slowly make his way back again with his warrior escort. This didn't last long because a barbarian warrior found my warrior and worker. The barbarian managed to kill my warrior in an ambush and in the process, killed my worker as well. So now both NYE and myself didn't have any workers. Need-less-to-say, building a replacement worker just wasn't a high priority for me at the time (and I would imagine it was the same for NYE).

During the time that my warrior was on the hunt for my wayward worker, I sent my spearmen from my captial to the front lines. My capital was now busy building archers. Since I had a barracks, my units would be veterans. I also pulled my remaining warrior from the outlaying lands back to our battle area. My warrior and my spearman met up and traveled together to NYE's second city (now a size 2). My two unit stack moved to the road connecting the city to NYE's capital (Rome) and pillaged the road network. NYE attacked my warrior and spearman with 2 warrios and a spearman. My spearman kicked butt and took names...and in the process gained elite status. After NYE's assault on my two units failed, my units waltzed into his second city - claiming it as apart of the Ottoman Empire...

	30-11-2003 23:33									#15
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Now that my Empire was back to having two cities (though not connected), my spearman and warrior healed themselves back to good health in the newly captured town as two archers made their way from my capital to the newly captured city. After one of my archer arrived, I moved him two tiles away from NYE's capital and ordered my elite spearman to pack his bags and meet up with the archer for an assualt on NYE's remaining city. The following turn ended with myself having my spearman and archer standing outside the gates of Rome. At this stage, I figured it was all or nothing, so I ordered my warrior garrisoned in the captured town to pack his bags and head for Rome also.
Of course, after the last unit in the garrison left the city, the city rioted - but I couldn't concern myself with it. NYE started this war, and I planned on finishing it once and for all.

With my archer-spearman combo camped outside Rome's gates and more units closing in, I believe NYE saw the writing on the wall and attacked my archer-spearman. After the smoke settled I only had my elite spearman (at one hit point remaining) and NYE had one archer left in Rome (also at one hit point remaining)! My reinforcements were two moves away, so I fortified my spearman.

On NYE's next turn he did what I believe any of us would have done - attack my 1 HP spearman with his 1 HP archer...of course, Fate had other plans for the Roman Empire. My spearman managed to survive this final assault and NYE's archer died in the brave attempt of trying to protect Rome.

So on my final turn, I moved my bleeding spearman into to Rome, effectively destroying the Roman Empire so that the Ottoman Empire could flurish.

I for one, never met any on the AI civs (except for that damned barbarian!)

Good Game NYE. This has been the quickest game that I ever played though.

So, is that enough "meat" for you guys?

	30-11-2003 23:57									#16
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Let's see it this will work. Here's a snap shot of what my map looked like at the end of the game:

Attachment: tourney1.jpg
This has been downloaded 668 time(s).

	01-12-2003 00:59									#17
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Thanks to Bigfree for a game well fought.

Playing as the Zulu, I managed to pull a win due to Impi throttling. Luck was on my side as I had some horses nearby and so the Zulu offensive was complete. Had Bigfree had some horses nearby his Hittite chariots would have caused me a lot of trouble. I got lucky in our archer/impi battles and withdraw prevented any casualties on my side.

In the interests of fair play I think this is the last time I play Zulu in this tourney. The peace limit ending hit the sweetspot of when my pillaging was ready to begin.

I had a pretty dream start, and got a settler from a hut. From there on in it was all over bar the formalitys.

I grabbed a pic of the end screen but I hit prntscrn in paint instead of ctrl-v

Attachment: 1.jpg
This has been downloaded 985 time(s).

	01-12-2003 01:30									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Now that my formerly garrisoned warrior killed the warrior who performed the sneek attack on my worker, this same warrior turned and killed the other warrior who raised my second city. One of my warriors who was romping around in the wilderness was then ordered to track down my worker was was last seen heading south-west into the wilderness. I eventually found the wayward worker and managed to capture him back again. I believe this is where NYE's plans started to crumble around him. On the turn prior to me recapturing my worker, NYE decided to disband the worker first .... But fate would not allow it. Instead of NYE disbanding my worker, he ended up disbanding his own worker!

It was an archer that had just completed in Veii. I was in a hurry because your warrior was in position to grab your worker back. I clicked on the worker, then clicked on disband. I did not wait to see that the archer was still the current unit.

Like I said, it started going downhill from there. After disbanding the archer in haste, I started taking things less seriously. After losing both warriors to the spear without giving him a scratch I was at the point of disgust, so I threw the spear at him too.

However, your situation after the capture of the worker and the loss of your city is a perfect example of why you should never say die, so my hat is off to you.

	01-12-2003 01:52									#19
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Thanks Snotty. Your strategy worked well. I look forward to the next tounament.

	02-12-2003 03:05									#20
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I have a better idea for map fairness.. in every round a new tournament map could be used, the same for all games in that round. People should not share info on the map or other players could cheat.
This way the map can remain hidden and exploration will still be useful.

It sounds like the Zulu were an unfair advantage.. their early Impi units are powerful.
Maybe players should work out before hand what civs to play as, and talk with each other to choose fair choices.

It would be good if we could view the actual games.. as spectators or by viewing a recording.
You could use a screen recorder or make it into an avi video. The best way would be to save ever 5 turns so we could see what happens.. multiplayer games can be interesting , at least to learn human tactics.

	02-12-2003 03:26									#21
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And how about making the second round start in the second age? It doesn't seem like those short games even come to the second age

	02-12-2003 04:30									#22
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How would you design fairness? Each starting with equal bonus, lux and strategic resources, both either grass or plains, water? I dont like the idea of tampering with the map too much, but it would be no great problem for someone to check to make sure we each have equal cows etc.

Bigfree and I spoke about civ choice before hand. Impis are powerful, but so are most of the UU we are going to see in these tourny games, and a good number of them would demolish Impis. The only option I could see to eliminate all UU, but that would be a shame.

I like the recorder idea. A slide show for people to see what the position was at the end of each turn.

The games have the potential to get to the second age. I think the examples we have seen so far have been unusually quick and bloody. Its always the quiet ones

	02-12-2003 05:59									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

I hate to pull out, but my firewall is still causing issues with MP mode. So I am going to have to forfeit my match.

	02-12-2003 12:55									#24
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Damn that's too bad, GF. Did you try direct IP? It worked for Wittlich and I. He had router and firewall at his end and I had firewall at my end. I was host.

	02-12-2003 15:37									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ It would be good if we could view the actual games.. as spectators or by viewing a recording. You could use a screen recorder or make it into an avi video

Do you know any good screen recorders? I haven't been able to find a good one... one that actualle saves the avi file!

	02-12-2003 21:12									#26
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i'll mail and pm heysewa myself as well
if he doesnt respond until the deadline (tomorrow midnight) he'll be disqualified

Snotty on the semifinals and Swissy as well without a fight

i'll update the table later today. Swissy and Wittlich can arrange/play their semifinal as of now(same deadline as the original)

many thanks for the AARs'!

	02-12-2003 21:51									#27
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table updated, with links to the aars' , heysewa pmed and mailed

	03-12-2003 02:36									#28
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Sent lame duck message. Have not heard from him yet

	03-12-2003 09:52									#29
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2nd tournament sign-ups
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...928#post2527928

	04-12-2003 05:34									#30
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I'm going to work on MP mode this weekend, maybe I can get it to work by the next tourney.