03-12-2003 03:42									#1
	Practical Shooting Range Business Full PM-box? Change here!

Or do you call it tactical?

Anyway, I just had an idea of building this nice range (I won't bother you with my crappy PSP skills). We'd have falling targets and solid targets, and weapons from handguns to assault rifles. There would also be moving targets, as there would be defensive shooting range also (you'll be in foxholes and start shooting with your buddies to different kind of targets).

There would be mandatory safety lessons before letting anyone enter.. the usual safety procedures.

Now, is there any state that would allow this kind of business for lets say.. a guy like me to put up?
There would be guns acquired and all, so I think we'd need to have lots of permits. Are there states that are not very uptight about giving those permits?

It would be for serious folks who want to train and keep their skills, people who want to learn tactical shooting, and maybe for fun. Also there could be a range for 100% fun, like flag games for paint guns...

Anyone interested getting in business?? .

	03-12-2003 03:46									#2
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uhh, are you going to be using real bullets? That's a liability suit waiting to happen.

	03-12-2003 03:49									#3
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Two words

tex as



and yes many permits will be needed. and by signing release forms, liabilty suits would be all but nullified

	03-12-2003 03:51									#4
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Of course real bullets. That's the whole idea. There shoudln't be much of problems, after mandatory safety and shooting lessons, and good instructions, there is only one person allowed in the range anyway. Otherwise it's suit waiting to happen . If someone shoots themselves inside the range, well that's Darwinism. The instructions did cover how you are supposed to carry your gun, how to point it, how to handle it. If you accidentally shoot yourself, it means you broke the rules.

	03-12-2003 03:52									#5
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how to clean up all that lead? I guess like regular shooting ranges. I always wonder how they clean all that crap up

	03-12-2003 03:54									#6
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Kramerman, I figured so, because they're legal even here. Though permits are next to impossible to get . But on positive side, there would be NO legal problems if someone decided to let's say trip and shoot their own brains to the ground. One thing I like about this country.. it's not all bad..

Anyway, I have some concepts how to make a good one.. for serious and for fun looking people. Make it a good business... yeah. Guess where the company parties will be held after bars close down?! Better be in good relations with the rest of the workers I guess.

	03-12-2003 03:56									#7
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Dissident, well, you can't go as freely as you'd think. There is certain route you are supposed to walk and there would be pointed places where you actually do the shooting. We can't let people go wild on the range anyway, that's bye bye permits I guess. Collecting is not a big problem.. There's a job for someone right there!

	03-12-2003 04:02									#8
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There would be also night shooting, you'd get to shoot targets when it's dark with .. what do you call them? Bullets with light? That's a cool experience for people whjo haven't done it, or it's been a long time. That's pretty cool. Maybe.. just maybe even sniper course... that would be pretty awesome.

	03-12-2003 04:05									#9
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tracers- that'd be cool

	03-12-2003 04:08									#10
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Yeah tracers.. it's quite beautiful at night.. I mean when you don't have to be in real situation! So it's nice and fun..

Naturally, since when newbies come in the first time they wont' be allowed to start shooting right there, and everyone would have to listen the mandatory basic safety lesson anyway, there'd be a small restaurant too. Nothing fancy.. and a coca cola machine. After hard days shooting, it's coca cola time. I'm telling you it would be cool.

And the sniper course, no you couldn't move with the rifle at all. YOu'd be on your stomach, and shooting targets. Your choice, for newbies easier targets and closer, for hardcore snipers, they'd be falling targets and in longer distances.. Good fun for the whole family.

	03-12-2003 04:15									#11
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I bet it could be really popular, or popular enough to be profitable.. teaching tactical shooting with handguns is good for self defense courses as well. We could get some folks come in 'protect your home and family' theme stuff like that... be prepared.. some crap like that. People will come....

Oops forgot one of the main weapons.. the shotgun .

	03-12-2003 06:39									#12
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Maybe you could give group discounts so like a whole gang could come in and polish up their tactical skills.

Sounds like if you were serious about that you would need to have your business located a bit out of any large city so that you could provide a large area. Either that or you would have to limit the amount of people on the range at any one time. Is this an indoor thing you are talking about or outdoor. If you came to the south you would do well to change your theme to more of a hunting thing instead of the tactical. I just think you would make more money off of hunters than you wouldbe militia men.

	03-12-2003 08:01									#13
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not necessarily. Ive heard of a place/course on television that does a very simliar thing to what Pekka is proposing. i dunno how well its doing, but it is basically a bunch of different ranges where they teach all sorts of shooting for just gun enthusiests and 'defense enthusiasts' alike. They have just basic ranges where you can just shoot, as well as tactical ranges (a mock city street with pop up targets) and competetions and stuff to see who can be the most accuarte in the fastest time and stuff.

	03-12-2003 08:04									#14
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There's businesses like that here in California. Major clients are Japanese tourists...who like really big guns: 9 m.m. automatic pistols; .44 magnums, that kind of thing.

	03-12-2003 08:11									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler There's businesses like that here in California. Major clients are Japanese tourists...

I never thought them the type.


With the way they snap off camera shots, I'd hate to see them witha gun.

	03-12-2003 08:18									#16
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the problem with only allowing one person at a time (which you would have to do to avoid liability in case one shoots another), is that it takes a certain amount of time to go through the course. In order to pay for overhead, and hopefully make a profit, you'd have to charge a decent amount of money.

Though shooting ranges never have to worry about liability... What's to stop me from shooting the guy next to me at the shooting range? Nothing. But with a complete course people will be going in all sorts of different directions. The won't be lined up all shooting the same direction.

	03-12-2003 14:42									#17
	Suffering from ads?

It's easy to do between tactical and hunting type of action. Just need to build a course, that is satisfying for both needs, or if the business picks up, build one or more for both. Maybe the courses should be modifiable too, so there would be little excitment for club members every now and then.

And sure discount for gangs.. naturally. Discounts for members too. Members could even bring their OWN guns and try them out. Naturally we'd have to check them before they bring them in, but that'll take less than 10 minutes.

Moving targets (moving on rails), could be just replaced as bears and the likes for hunters, and terrorists and baddies for tactical shooters.

Depends... I think getting inside place for this would be so expensive it'd be impossible.... I think it would have to be outdoors, at first.

Pretty much what Kramerman is talking about.

But if we'd get enough land, there could be whole lots of other types of shooting as well. Basic shooting, tactical, modified to hunting too, paint gun range for fun, defensive shooting for crazy people... tracer shooting for romantic types.. and if enougn land, even sniper shooting.

Start slow, build from there. I realize it woudln't bee shooters Disney Land for some time.. build slowly.

Dissident, sure we could have two people at the same time, but ONLY for club members. They have to be 'certified' to be allowed to do it. They have to sign waivers naturally, and the ranges are build to avoid these possibilities.. but club members could do pair shootings, go there tactical, meter away from each other. But when this happens, they have to be club members and complete all the required safety lessons and practices... there's no way it would be a good idea to let tourists go with live ammo hand to hand to range..

A different type of range, where they could go, but there would be no realistic ways of shooting each other.. then same time sure. They could compete with time, accuracy and what not.. personel is naturally needed to observe ALL TIMES.

	03-12-2003 14:57									#18
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Are there tracers for shotguns? That would be cool

And don't forget machine guns


Possibly a great Idea would be to create some historical battles

	03-12-2003 17:19									#19
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Safety would be a major issue on a facility like that.

Assault rifles (7.62/5.56) would not be a good idea. The bullets travel too far. The land mass you would need for that is just too big, and it would still take very detailed instructions on shooting directions and angles, something you have no guarantee your clients would understand or care about.

A Swedish officer was sentenced for letting his platoon go Rambo on the shooting range, spraying from the hip with 7.62 machine guns. One astray bullet hit a civilian guy in the head while he drove his car 5 km away.

I would suggest an indoor range with 9 mm sub-machine guns and shotguns, locateed in a shut down industry or warehouse. Then you can cover the roof and walls with sandbags and heavy plating, and the only thing you would have to worry about is your client shooting himself in the foot.

But what's wrong with paintball anyway? It's safe, fun, adrenalin-rushing and the targets shoot back at you.

	03-12-2003 17:36									#20
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Ollie,
I don't know if you ever fired a military weapon. It's FUN

	03-12-2003 19:05									#21
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very thrilling

	03-12-2003 19:12									#22
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Ollie, I don't know if you ever fired a military weapon. It's FUN

6.5 mm Gevär M/1896 Mauser rifle
9 mm K-pist M/45b sub-machine gun
7.62 mm AK-4 assault rifle
5.56 mm AK-5 assault rifle
7.62 mm KSP-58 machine gun
Plus live hand grenades and training ammo for RPG:s

While shooting live ammo with military weapons could have it's thrills, I would still consider paintball as more fun.

	03-12-2003 20:13									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Chemical Ollie, unfortunately I believe you are correct with the assualt rifles.. I think it's not a good idea going outdoors after you pointed out the facts. Even with big masses of sand built everywhere, they would still bounce from them and who knows where they go, but what ever would happen, it would mean the outdoors place would have to be located near nothing, and we'd have to cover few km's every direction to be hazardous zone. And there couldn't be those other ranges next to them either. So, I guess assult rifles could be handled ONLY indoors. People just have to settle with handguns on the tactical range then I guess.. Or build a small one inside the warehouse or whatever...

I don't know about the regulations, maybe there are ways to set safe outdoors range too for assault rifles, for example if there's nothing in the shooting and possible bouncing sector for let's say that 5 kms, no people, no houses, no roads.. and then set up signs that warn about them.. I don't know, then I think we should own the whole property to the signs, and that's just too much. I don't know, have to work on that.

Machine guns are I think impossible .

AND I said, paint ball range is one of things you can do! Your choice... kids for paint ball, dads for shotguns, assault rifles and handguns..

	03-12-2003 20:15									#24
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What WOULD be COOL, is to get those laser equipment for real weapons. Then get helmets and the works, put then blanks in the magz and go for combat.. but those are freaking expensive, and they'd be breaking all the time when customers crash them to ground etc.. so.. that woulkdn't work I think.. but would be hella cool.

	03-12-2003 20:20									#25
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That paintball range would be so cool if it was in the forrest.. I'd build stuff like foxholes etc there, so folks can improvise. Then get this fun packet, that you get to have camosuits, masks (mandatory), the works, and have a night combat .. Shiit.. I give then NVGs, throw in some smoke granades in the middle of the night, flares and stuff... secured areas without outside entry, Id put that TNT working simulating mortar attacks... Maybe I'm going too far .

Let's start with the first shooting range though. How impossible it is to get all the permits for this kind of business in the US?

	03-12-2003 20:22									#26
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The lazerdome in my home town is 10 € an hour.

And if you don't shoot live ammo anyway, you could as well use soft airguns instead of real guns.

	03-12-2003 20:25									#27
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Yeab but the lazerdome SUCKS. I've been in one of those too.. they are freaking toys you play with.. with real guns and blanks, .. but I see where you're coming from and I just got too excited, I think it's not a working idea.

	03-12-2003 20:31									#28
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Me and my friends used to have BB gun wars when we were younger. The only real safety rules we followed was to wear jeans and long sleave shirts.

BTW we used those old bb guns. not the ones they have today

	03-12-2003 20:46									#29
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Hey Pekka, aren't you working on a masters degree in computer science? You should do what no one else has done before, otherwise it's just another one of those things people have already tried. Build a life-size computer-game shooting range where you shoot gunpowder blanks (to get some real sound, gunsmoke and recule). The guns should have that laser equipment so that you only hit when you actually aim correctly, then enemies (and friendlies, illegal targets) should appear on wide screens in windows, in the woods, or wherever you are.

The enemies could be terrorist, bank robbers, grizzly bears or dinosaours, whatever fits the clients preferrence.

It would be safe, still lifelike, you could work alone or in teams.

	03-12-2003 20:48									#30
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That's not quite the same now is it ..