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Jack_www is offline Jack_www
King

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Jul 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 04-12-2003 22:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
So when will Ashcroft do something about the Enron cretins? What, they have too many connections?

Cool avatar, Wittlich


Well consider this. This whole thing started in 1991, and it is now 2003 almost 2004 and the trail to sue France has not even begun yet.

If we apply the same time table to Enron, most likely we wont see the end of that untill around 2014.

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 22:54
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There in front of a California grand jury!!! Run! God knows what stupid thing our moronic judges will do now...

Jack_www is offline Jack_www
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 22:55
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I hope this ends up in Court in California and France in the end up paying billions of dollars to the US.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 23:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack_www
I hope this ends up in Court in California and France in the end up paying billions of dollars to the US.


I see that as a great opprtunity for us to get rid, at last, of a bunch of castastrophic bastards.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 23:19
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Out of Topic ( ), there are rumors that the French are building a case against **** Cheney for minor offences committed when he was President of an Halliburton subsidiary, associated with Technip and two other companies in a consortium building a plant in Nigeria.

Edit : I wrote D i c k and I got ****. Is it a bad word?

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 23:25 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Is this a ***-for-tat or is this a separate case in your mind?

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 23:39
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As I have not a tortuous mind, I just observe it. It is only a 180 millions $ bribes distributed not by the consortium, but by the Halliburton sub.

Is not bribery forbidden by US laws?

Am I wrong in supposing that such an accusation could weaken the Bush/Cheney ticket?

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 23:49
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
A good chunk of the French business elite being brought up on criminal charges in the US doesn't stir your interest?
it does, but the US will probably punish them worse than America white collar criminals (*coughfriendsofBush) who screw more people for more money...

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 05-12-2003 00:53 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Is not bribery forbidden by US laws?


Indeed it is. This type would fall under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

quote:
Am I wrong in supposing that such an accusation could weaken the Bush/Cheney ticket?


Tough to know. Depends on how good the case was perceived to be. Would this be an actual indictment (or the French equivalent) of Cheney or an indictment of the subsidiary?

Last edited by DanS on 05-12-2003 at 00:59

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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  Old Post 05-12-2003 03:09
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS


Indeed it is. This type would fall under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.



Tough to know. Depends on how good the case was perceived to be. Would this be an actual indictment (or the French equivalent) of Cheney or an indictment of the subsidiary?


The penal responsibility is always held by the highest executive, in person (unless a legal delegation of authority has been made public).

A couple of month ago, a former president and two executives of Elf (now Total) have been sentenced of 5 to 8 years of jail (without representation).

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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  Old Post 05-12-2003 13:53
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I remember having read in ]le Canard Enchaîné (the French newspaper specialized in unveiling this kind of politico-financial affairs, but with a fun layout) how the amouts demanded by California progressively worsened, as France refused to settle the affair.

At first, those were a mere few millions. Then it became bigger and bigger, and each time, France refused to settle.

I suppose attacking Cheney is the best thing to do now. When Cheney will become eligible for a round in prison, I'm sure both the Elysée and the White House will surprisingly understand each other very well.

And naturally, the defrauded people could go **** themselves. Who is more important after all? 200,000 anonymous Californians, or the Great François Pinault?

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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  Old Post 05-12-2003 14:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

And naturally, the defrauded people could go **** themselves. Who is more important after all? 200,000 anonymous Californians, or the Great François Pinault?


What defrauded people are you talking about? Executive life was BANKRUPT. The crime is purely formal : a bank was not allowed then (and it is now I believe - could this be confirmed?) to possess or held shares of an insurance company, and the Credit lyonnais who was financing the acquisition is accused of having hold the shares. Any bank making a loan to a company buying an insurance company can be accused of such a crime.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 06-12-2003 03:25 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
I suppose attacking Cheney is the best thing to do now. When Cheney will become eligible for a round in prison, I'm sure both the Elysée and the White House will surprisingly understand each other very well.


I doubt that's the case. Mostly, these criminal prosecutions are run and overseen by career prosecutors at Justice. Once the trigger is pulled on a criminal lawsuit, it's tough or impossible to go back. Doesn't matter what the French do to Cheney.

I think France is misreading the strength of its position and is getting itself into a pickle. As the evidence firmed up, that's when the US demands became progressively larger. It's not tough to do a back of the envelope probability of award x award amount calculation...

Last edited by DanS on 06-12-2003 at 03:35

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 06-12-2003 03:48
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And while we are at I do sincerely hope that TDC, in which SBC has 47 percent shares, will get *****-slapped by the Danish tax inspectors to pay up for what they cheated on in their tax. That is one Billion dollars right here. Of course SBC, formerly Ameritech, has never been accused of honesty.


Ameritech

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 06-12-2003 03:56 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Of course SBC, formerly Ameritech, has never been accused of honesty.


I don't know how you can *****, when SBC doesn't even control the company. And when was it accused of dishonesty?

Last edited by DanS on 06-12-2003 at 04:09

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
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  Old Post 06-12-2003 04:10
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS


I don't know how you can *****, when SBC doesn't even control the company.



No but they will loose some earnings, right?
In any case when the SBC took over the TDC they suggested some 'structural reforms'. Maybe one of them was to put up a subsidiary in Germany and wiggle themselves ot of taxes from there. They probably thought they had it made when they set up the former Danish finance minister as CEO. However they forgot to calculate that he was ousted from the liberal party by none other than the current Premier Minister. And he was a former minister of taxes.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 06-12-2003 04:14 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
No but they will loose some earnings, right?


What's your point? Do you really have anything to add to this discussion?

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 06-12-2003 04:20
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS


What's your point? Do you really have anything to add to this discussion?


Well I thought this thread is the place were you can gloat over various victories on the battlefield of the 'market'.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 06-12-2003 04:26 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Well I thought this thread is the place were you can gloat over various victories on the battlefield of the 'market'.


No, it wasn't. Now go away.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 11-12-2003 20:16 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Looks like a deal is back on in this affair.

quote:
French PM set to unveil Executive Life deal
Martin Arnold and Jo Johnson in Paris
Published: December 11 2003 10:21 | Last Updated: December 11 2003 10:21

Jean-Pierre Raffarin, French prime minister, is expected to announce on Thursday that France has reached a preliminary $770m (€633m) deal to settle the Executive Life affair with Californian prosecutors.

The settlement would bring a last-minute resolution to a five-year legal dispute that has developed into a major source of Franco-US tension, requiring diplomatic interventions at the highest level on both sides of the Atlantic.

The agreement, reached late on Wednesday night, includes François Pinault, one of France's richest businessmen, who has agreed to pay $185m without admission of guilt to settle charges against his Artémis family holding company.

Crédit Lyonnais will pay $100m, while the Consortium de Réalisation - the "bad bank" set up to take over Lyonnais' liabilities in 1994 - will pay about $475m, with both admitting some guilt on technical issues of disclosure. The remaining $10m will come from Maaf, the French insurer.

The deal is likely to avert the Californian prosecutor's threat to call on a jury this week to hear criminal charges, ranging from fraud to perjury and money laundering, against some of France's most powerful business interests.

President Jacques Chirac, who intervened to block a previous settlement that excluded Mr Pinault, is expected to agree to the last-ditch deal as it fulfils his requirement for "a global deal covering all parties".

Jean Peyrelevade, who resigned as chairman of Lyonnais to defend himself against the Executive Life charges, is under pressure to agree some level of guilt, something he has so far steadfastly refused to accept.

The origins of the affair lie in Lyonnais's 1991 acquisition of Executive Life, a failed life insurer. The purchase is alleged to have breached a now-repealed federal law against banks owning insurers.

The French government is involved because Lyonnais was then a state-owned company. It was privatised in 1999 and then the subject of a €19.5bn takeover from Credit Agricole last year. The bank had risked losing its US licence if no deal was reached.

The affair has become a hot political issue for Mr Chirac in France. The Socialist opposition has called for a parliamentary inquiry into the affair. It has accused Mr Chirac of putting his personal friendship with Mr Pinault, the retail magnate at the centre of the scandal, ahead of taxpayers' interests.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
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  Old Post 11-12-2003 21:28 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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Wow, I didn't know France had $770m. I wonder if they had to take out a mortgage on the Maginot Line............

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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  Old Post 11-12-2003 21:47
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GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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  Old Post 11-12-2003 21:51 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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Yikes! They wrote Arnold a hot check!

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 11-12-2003 21:55 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Well, $770 million is a lot of money. No doubt about it. It represents the same amount of pain to corporate France as a $5 billion payment would be to corporate America.

 
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